Calling Tory Voters

[donquixotedelamancha]

Some recent NHS themed threads have me thinking. I wonder whether those who voted Tory at the last election, or the one previously, wouldn't mind giving their oppinions:

1. Do you think that the NHS is in crisis? If so do you want it to receive more money?
2. Was the NHS an important issue for you, when you voted?
3. What do you want to see replace the NHS?
4. Do you intend to vote the same way again? Does this fit with your answers above, or do you feel torn?

I might well! I've worked with a lot in my time. Again, some excellent, others piss takers. The latter don't last long!

Joey
If your husband is in a position of a real contractor or self employed person then IR35 would not apply to him. It applies where someone is working for the same company long term and is effectively employed. I know lots of contractors who have companies set up with their other halves and payed minimal tax and dividends tax free for years whilst working in the same job and having contracts renewed annually. IR35 is set up to combat that and I think it is correct.
Btw my husband contracted for years and feel under the IR35 rules, also got no pension, sick pay etc so I know exactly how it works but he was paid significantly more than he would have been as an employee (because the company did not have to cover employers NIC, sick pay etc).
I don't know where you thought I was lecturing you, I haven't responded to any of your posts.

Dividends are not tax free for company directors. Perhaps you need to gather accurate information before attempting to post insults.

This is a very recent change and tax on dividends is significantly lower than tax on employment income. Also if you have a company you can manage when you pay dividends to reduce tax and you can have your partner owning 50% of the shares so they can also use their allowances to get dividends. There is a reason people contract through companies and it is generally to reduce their tax.
The new dividend rules and increased enforcement of IR35 have reduced the benefit and that is a good thing.

They don’t indeed.

Oh and the first £5k of dividends are tax free and you also get your usual tax free allowance.

1. Do you think that the NHS is in crisis? If so do you want it to receive more money?
It's always in crisis. No I don't think throwing money at it is a solution. I have worked in the NHS on the admin side and there is a lot of waste and people in very highly paid jobs that you wouldn't notice if they weren't there. Bin them, get properly on top of the waste and it might not be so expensive to run.
2. Was the NHS an important issue for you, when you voted?
Nope, and virtue signalling about "our NHS" is a really quick way to lose my vote. If someone has a specific idea that they want to promote I'm happy to hear it, but a platform that just goes "something something NURSES!!! something something CANCER!! something something CUTS!!" bores me rigid- it's playing to the gallery and the vast majority of people are so stupid they fall for it every time.
3. What do you want to see replace the NHS?
I don't think it needs replacing, I think people need to start seeing it as a privilege and not a right and stop abusing it by not allowing the waste and members of the public taking responsibility for their own care. I think some common sense incentives for people to take responsibility for their own health are a good idea, such as obese people, smokers, people with other self-imposed health risks to engage positively with a health trainer or be charged for GP appointments.
4. Do you intend to vote the same way again? Does this fit with your answers above, or do you feel torn?
Nope, switched to a different party because of local issues, fuck all to do with the NHS.

olivia

Sorry that’s just not true. Dh fell foul of ir35 last year with a government dept. It was a political decision. He left. Most contractors now avoid public sector for this reason or they will going forward.

Sorry about the lecture comment but I get fed up of this crap saying self employed people should be treated as employed.

They arnt and will Never be.

Anyway back to NHS.

In my opinion we need a proper cross party reform of the whole organisation and I think the public would support it.

Reform is absolutely necessary. I'd like to see a root and branch reform. Some of the treatments it currently offers certainly shouldn't be available, I'm thinking here of stuff like gender reassignment. I fully realise how controversial that is.

*They arnt and will Never be.

Anyway back to NHS.

In my opinion we need a proper cross party reform of the whole organisation and I think the public would support it.*

I guess you are basing your opinion of self employed on what you have seen which is reasonable and I agree people who are really self employed shouldn't fall under IR35.
But many people should, I know people and have worked with many people who have contracted for years in the same company as a contractor, paid significantly more than employees who had companies where they are there DP were shareholders and used both of their tax free allowances and dividend payments to significantly reduce their tax. That may not be the case for your DH but it is/was widespread in lots of industries.

I agree with you on cross party reform.

I was "really" self employed on contracts lasting a few months at most. You didn't bother asking though, just jumped to conclusions.

Just to give a bit of a humorous perspective, this sketch from Yes, Prime Minister still rings true. The episode about the hospital that happens to be one of the most efficient in the country, simply because it doesn't have any patients. I think it makes the point that it doesn't really matter which government is in power, they all cock it up in some way...

1. Yes, of course, it's chronically underfunded and people's expectations are too high.
2. Yes. I couldn't vote for Corbyn because he'd trash the economy leaving to even less money for the NHS.
3. I wouldn't replace the NHS, but I would prefer it was funded through social insurance (like in europe) rather than general tax. Reason being, everyone hates rises in income tax, but would probably be more willing if it was a raise in social insurance to fund the NHS, and then the NHS wouldn't have to compete with other government departments for funding.
4. Definitely if Corbyn is still in charge. If it was someone like Liz Kendal/Stephen Kinnock, I'd be open to listening and potentially being persuaded.

1. Do you think that the NHS is in crisis?

Not in crisis as such, but it is a shambles If so do you want it to receive more money? Not necessarily

1. Was the NHS an important issue for you, when you voted?

No

1. What do you want to see replace the NHS?

I don't want it replaced

1. Do you intend to vote the same way again?

Yes Does this fit with your answers above, or do you feel torn? It fits with my answers above

To elaborate on my answer to question 1 - I think the NHS needs to a proper review & re-evaluation. They waste heaps of money on shit & don't prioritise properly. I don't think just chucking money at it is good enough.

OliviaPopeRules

I do know the rules regarding dividends - myself and DH have been company directors for years. We do not, however, work as contractors for the NHS and IR35 is irrelevant for us. The statement you made was misleading and I was pointing that out. There is nothing wrong with using legal ways to reduce your tax liability.

No.
No.
The NHS is finished as it stands .It is not possible to fund.
Yes.

No. No.
No.
Paid for healthcare.
Yes. Yes. No.

"Do people feel that PFI is the main cause of the issues in the NHS?(Personally I think they are stupid, but things would be a mess without them) Do people feel that the Tories should be scrapping them then?"

Yes and yes.

We have no idea if things would be a mess without them but PFI is a collosal waste of money.

The NHS is a shambles and it's the middle management, procurement and devolution of what was an enourmous organisation with massive purchasing power / ability to get good prices and all economies of scale into smaller, insignificant trusts.

The NHS wasn't a major factor in my vote.

Q3 is built of an entirely false premise. You've completely swallowed the myth that the Tories are dismantling the NHS. They're trying to sort out the clusterfuck that it is.

I'll probably vote Tory again. I voted remain (in line with Tory leadership) but now we are leaving I want May and the Tories in charge. Corbyn is a deluded moron and more anti-EU than most, his party seem to be comprised of violent antifa types, virtue-signallers or morons and there's no other party to vote for.

I'd be tempted to vote Labour again (as I have in the past - I was a big fan of Blair, on the whole) if they root out the anti-semitism and become a moderate, centrist party with realistic promises.

The UK is proper fucked at the moment and we need tough leadership, not a dickhead who appears at Glastonbury and is proclaimed the messiah by his devotees.

1. Do you think that the NHS is in crisis? If so do you want it to receive more money?
Yes it is, due to cronic mid management and waste. I Would like to see it reformed before anymore money was spent on it or it would be wasted.

2. Was the NHS an important issue for you, when you voted? No

3. What do you want to see replace the NHS? Fully funded A&E/ urgent care. Insurance based system for other care.

4. Do you intend to vote the same way again? Don’t think I will vote this time.

Curious. Those saying it isn’t underfunded, how do you balance that with the fact there is less spend per head than other European health systems? How do you think it can deliver health care with less money than everyone else has, and then when it can’t say it’s about the way it’s managed?

For a party that wants to get rid of the NHS, they’ve not done very well in the last 70 years. Don’t remember the NHS being transformed into a perfect utopian model under Labours leadership either?

How do you think it can deliver health care with less money than everyone else has, and then when it can’t say it’s about the way it’s managed?

How do you think throwing more money into something that obviously isn't working very well will fix it?

If your car starts having to go in to the garage on a weekly basis do you -
A: - Keep paying to keep it on the road indefinitely - risking a catastrophic failure
B: - Get an independent, decent mechanic to give it a proper check up & overhaul to keep it going safely
C: - Buy a new one
D: - Lease a new one

Labour have a history of overspending

This is not actually true. The Tories have a history of saying it and the public have a history of believing it, but it doesn't actually have a history of happening. You can see this for yourself with just a cursery bit of research as these things are, quite obviously, a matter of public record, but the Tories rely on most people not bothering to look. Even when some people do, the old adage that if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes truth is sadly evident.

It was global but caused by the relaxation in banking regulations that were also global and supported by Brown.

And supported by the Tories. Again, this is a matter of public record, the Tories voted in support of deregulation and in fact said they would have gone further.

The NHS never has been and never will be perfect. However, PFI contracts aside, it was considerably more effective during 1997-2010. It was properly funded - we may not agree with how the money was spent, but it was put in place - targets were introduced for the first time, waiting times plummeted, understaffing was non existent. There were no ambulances queued up outside A&E departments and operations weren't cancelled for entire months during the winter.

Over the last seven years drastic cuts in funding have led to winter chaos and a return to the postcode lottery with services being cut piecemeal according to different CCGs' whim with no democratic accountability.

It needs both reform and proper funding but both main parties are terrified of the electoral consequences of reform so Labour throws money at the problem and the Tories starve it of funding and privatise by stealth.

As has been said upthread, reform is needed, carried out crossparty. Shame we have no way of voting for that.

There is a 40% deficit in contractors working the The Public Sector.
DH is a contractor and we know lots of others, since IR35 they either
Won’t work in the Public Sector
Increase their rates in the Public Sector
Get around it by working for a company as a contractor who then subs them to The Public Sector
So whatever you think of IR35 it really isn’t benefitting the PS at all
IR35 gives Contractors the disadvantages of employer with none of the benefits
Anyway, back to OP’s questions - I’m a high level volunteer in our local Trust so have a bit of inside knowledge as to its workings

1. Yes it is, some more money would be good but the issues are largely organisational and also people’s expectations

2.No 3.No idea and largely irrelevant as nobody would dare try to dismantle it. One option would be a voucher system so if someone wanted to go Private but couldn’t quite afford it they would get the cost of the OP from the NHS but could top up themselves . 4.Probably. A bit torn as I’m anti Brexit so do tbreally what to vote Tory but I wouldn’t dream of voting Labour a d The Libs are too weak

It's the same old left wing bullshit isn't it.

1. Do you think that the NHS is in crisis? If so do you want it to receive more money? Probably but not because of a Tory Government. Not until the current issues of mismanagement are resolved.

2. Was the NHS an important issue for you, when you voted? Not specifically.

3. What do you want to see replace the NHS? I don't want to see it replaced, just run more effectively.

4. Do you intend to vote the same way again? Does this fit with your answers above, or do you feel torn? Of course, the alternatives are risible. Yes and no I don't feel torn.

I am currently in hospital and have seen many examples of money being wasted, starting with the food provided by Sodexo that must cost the NHS a fortune, is inedible and which in most cases ends up in the slop bucket. There should be an option for patients' visitors to bring in heatable food and/or order takeaways.

I've been in here a week and yesterday had a third brace fitted to my leg, the previous two having been tossed in the bin after one day's wear because the first two were the wrong size. There are many other examples and I totally agree that the managerial hierarchy needs to be slashed. Medical experts should run hospitals, not jobsworths.

The doctors and nurses are amazing and do a fantastic job (maybe with the exception of one rude, uncaring nurse who might be better suited in the prison service) and they should be the priority, not layers of unnecessary managers.