Calling Tory Voters

[donquixotedelamancha]

Some recent NHS themed threads have me thinking. I wonder whether those who voted Tory at the last election, or the one previously, wouldn't mind giving their oppinions:

1. Do you think that the NHS is in crisis? If so do you want it to receive more money?
2. Was the NHS an important issue for you, when you voted?
3. What do you want to see replace the NHS?
4. Do you intend to vote the same way again? Does this fit with your answers above, or do you feel torn?

As has been said upthread, reform is needed, carried out crossparty. Shame we have no way of voting for that.

You need some continuity for such a massive project, and 4 years/a Government term isn't long enough to do anything substantial.

Hence no party is willing to risk their neck on the 3rd rail because they know they can't complete it in the timeframe available. The party that picks it up is on a losing wicket, because all they'll do is hand the ballot box to the other side.

I wonder what could happen if we said "ok, you can have 8 full years in office before the next election, on the proviso you transform the NHS according to these ".

Interestingly the Senior management in our Trust dont actually want a change of government or even Health minister as they think they would have to “start again” and would rather try and work with the policies currently in place
They dread Labour getting in ( and most remember them from last time) as they feel the emphasis would switch from patient rights/welfare to staff ones

They must be the only staff in the whole of the NHS who feel that way. I've worked in seven NHS organisations since 2010 and have yet to meet anyone in any of them who think this.

Not a Tory voter but just wanted to add my two penneth for anyone who thinks the NHS isn’t in crisis- it definitely fucking is. I’ve been ill lately with something that is thankfully not going to kill me but is chronic and miserable. The NHS is absolutely screwed at every turn. I am having to fight to get the treatment I need which should be a right and it’s demoralising. I only hope that for those with life threatening conditions the struggle isn’t this bad, but I suspect it is.

1. Yes. No.
2. Yes
3. Not applicable
4. Yes. Yes. (No, I don't feel torn).

I have never voted Tory but the way I see it is that Corbyn/Labour would use the NHS/education/housing as a political football to berate the Tories rather than actually making significant changes that actually save money and make peoples lives better, and more money thrown at the NHS wouldn't make any difference to ordinary patients experience of using it.

Any improvements made to any big aspect of society by a specific Government need to make them look good and because changes normally take longer than 5 years, the Government who made the change is unlikely to be able to take credit for it so they spend the whole time blaming the previous Government rather than actually serving the people (the same applies to bad things that happen under a specific Government). All Governments do this however, I think Corbyn's Labour being obsessed with hating private enterprise would take on a scorched earth policy where they could show up the Tories/evil private companies rather than making necessary cost cutting and structural changes to the NHS were they to get into power. I imagine Haringey will be a microcosm of what a Corbyn Government would do on a major scale (ie. increase taxes for the "rich", waste money on a major scale, identity politics, no real improvement to public services etc).

1. Do you think that the NHS is in crisis? Yes

If so do you want it to receive more money?* No*

1. Was the NHS an important issue for you, when you voted?* Yes*
2. What do you want to see replace the NHS?* N/A*
3. Do you intend to vote the same way again? Yes

Does this fit with your answers above, or do you feel torn? Yes, yes, and no

This pretty much sums it up:

The NHS isn't underfunded at all, its is chronically mismanaged.

There's without doubt a great deal of room for improvement in its management but it's the worst funded in Europe. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

It doesn't need more money, it just needs better management. Some areas are fantastic, others are crap. Improve the systems where they need it, sack lots of the senior management (on the principle that most big organisations have too many senior management who cost a lot and give little), get rid of staff who don't want to do a proper job (lots of the admin ones round here) & replace them with people who do.
I voted Conservative, I'll still vote Conservative. And as long as Corbyn & his cronies are in charge of Labour I'll not even consider changing. (I've voted for all the main 3 parties in my life so I'm not fixed in stone). He's putting his own self-interests before the country's yet again. You can't say that about Theresa May because if she was she'd have gone for a cracking manifesto in the election to ensure she got elected - she went for prudent even though it wasn't popular and it cost her because (greedy) people believed Corbyn's unrealistic promises (which he's already gone back on).

Where does the money come from to sack all these people you perceive to be useless? It costs a huge amount of money to make people redundant - up to two years salary in some cases. And you can't just decide not to pay it.

Well if you're paying their salaries anyway you might as well pay them to leave & let the people who actually do the work get on uninterrupted & without the frustration. Short-term pain, short & long-term gain.
And the lower level staff who are crap get fired for not performing - nil cost.

We'd rather bash hardworking NHS staff instead. And be nursed by Indians - like the lady who looked after my in law last month who I couldn't understand

Fucking hell - so that's the crisis some people think the NHS is having? Too many foreigners??

Does anyone seriously think the NHS was fine until the Tories got into government. Sadly deluded.
We have a health care system we can no longer afford and we need to ask ourselves some grown up questions about it.
By the way, I have never and would never vote Tory. I am very old and have (until Corbyn) always voted Labour.

Fucking hell - so that's the crisis some people think the NHS is having? Too many foreigners??

As a doctor in the NHS, yeah. I've been told how 'it's so lovely to see a white doctor for once', 'maybe if they didn't have funny accents they'd be able to see patients quicker' and 'I support the junior doctors strikes, all the foreigns are taking the GP spots so you can't get them'.

Racism makes people think fucking weird things.

Also, wouldn't ever vote Tory but popped in to have a peek at what Tory voters thought.

There's no such thing as a nil cost dismissal. You have to go through the due process meticulously or you get taken to an employment tribunal. Performance managing someone out of a job takes ages and a huge amount of effort, which is why most managers lose the will to live and give up.

Also, wouldn't ever vote Tory but popped in to have a peek at what Tory voters thought.

My conscience as a Tory Voter is clear!!

To be honest, the NHS would have to be actively hunting people down and killing them for a couple of decades to even begin to get near the death toll caused by Labour Voters, so they shouldn't be too smug.....

beep the first PFI came in under John Major's government.

the first PFI came in under John Major's government.
I'll say it again - the vast majority of NHS PFI contracts were signed during the Blair Brown years. In fact I'm pretty sure there were no PFI hospitals built under Major (but stand to be corrected).
The biggest problem is not that NHS spending has reduced but that PFI repayments are crippling NHS trusts.

As pp said the NHS was not spectacular under Labour. And very much they same for Social Care. I worked in Jeremy Corbyns constituency when Labour were in. I sat in many meetings where it was decided to contract out social care provision, and where it became apparent that the last penny would be squeezed out of those contracts with little or not thought to the clients affected.
The NHS and social care need to be joined up-if one is failing, then the other will be affected negatively. The first thing that needs to happen is that they work together.

the death toll caused by Labour Voters

I'll bite. Which deaths am I responsible for?

Labour wasted £26bn on IT systems including £12bn on the NHS system which was scrapped. £5bn on ID cards which was scrapped. Most of them were delayed over budget or didnt work.

Slow clap for Labour.

Just think what £12bn would have done for the NHS.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labours-computer-blunders-cost-16326bn-1871967.html

I'll bite. Which deaths am I responsible for?

Caveat: I don't buy into the Corbynist & virtue-signaller strategy of blaming individual voters for deaths, so I don't blame Labour voters personally for the following deaths, although I do blame the Labour govt.

Under Tony Blair, there were unnecessary deaths of Soldiers due to his not signing off on procuring the correct equipment & shortages of essential kit, even when they knew that it was happening. People went into war zones without basics like body armour, let alone the armoured vehicles etc.

Also, the obvious blood on his hands of 100s of thousands service & civilians due to his rushing into war with no proper plan (or proper basis).

Oh dear the ‘tories hate the NHS and labour are the real supporters blah blah blsh’

All this does is continue to make the NHS unworkable and unfit for purpose.

Ffs we need a cross party or better still a totally independent panel of doctors, nurses, providers and accountants to really look at how social care and the NHS be properly run and funded
This would take a time and money but be worthy it to get proper reform.

1. Do you think that the NHS is in crisis? Yes

If so do you want it to receive more money? No - healthcare needs a radical re-think

1. Was the NHS an important issue for you, when you voted? No

1. What do you want to see replace the NHS? Still thinking about this.

1. Do you intend to vote the same way again? Have always voted Conservative, and always will (though I can't stand Teresa May).

Does this fit with your answers above, or do you feel torn?

Don't feel in the slightest bit torn. I will always vote Conservative because they will, to my mind, always be a better bet than Labour (or any other alternative).

HTH.

Thinking further about number 3. I think something cross-party would be better than the NHS being politicised. Ditto education. Both parties probably have sensible ideas, but neither is perfect and consensus would probably be better.