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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to ask how MN users can be so stupid about Trans women?

197 replies

Curiositykilledthecat113 · 23/02/2018 23:36

Why are trans women and men put into the same category? As if trans women are accepted by men. In a world where men are constantly try to look the most “manliest” do you honestly think that transwomen are accepted into this

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
DioneTheDiabolist · 24/02/2018 02:33

OP, what do you mean by In a world where men are constantly try to look the most “manliest"?Confused

None of the men I know try to look manly. They just look like themselves.

panjandrumpyjamas · 24/02/2018 02:43

Bloody hell i just read that link wearawhitefeather.wordpress.com/survivors/rape-culture-statistics/
1 in 3 (30-35%) of men would rape if they knew they’d get away with it. (Source. Plus, second source 11 years later showing the same percentage: Kilpatrick)
and 1 in 16 (6.5%) men are rapists. 2002 Lisak study, although other studies show as high as nearly 15%, or 1 in 7 men.

Jon66 · 24/02/2018 03:12

Some of the views here remind me of those views perpetrated in the eighties by homophobics. Just move on and worry about really important things like children being killed in Syria and people being homeless in the UK . . ..

Italiangreyhound · 24/02/2018 03:19

@Jon66 we can worry about children in Syria, and homeless people and still also worry about women in our own country as well.

This has nothing to do with homophobia.

TheButterflyOfTheStorms · 24/02/2018 03:23

Think of the homeless @Jon66 Actually think of them. Vulnerable women, the vast majority of whom have been assaulted, including sexually. Accessing shelters very reluctantly. Most women avoid shelters for longer than men do, staying in dangerous and compromising relationships in order not to do it. So traumatized, victims of male violence, scared and vulnerable...

Sharing with people with penises. With self ID any man can walk into the female shelter/hostel/refuge. And it's a hate crime to challenge it.

Some of us are worried BECAUSE we work with refugees, offenders and homeless people. Not instead of worrying about them.

unlimiteddilutingjuice · 24/02/2018 04:40

"Do you really think that all the men who view themselves as “manly” would lower themselves to dress as a woman just to peep at women in bathroom stalls?"

I think it's a bit of a misconception that women are at the biggest risk from stereotypically "manly" men.
Geeky men, drippy men, men that didn't get picked for sports, men that crossdress, men that identify with stereotypically female pursuits: they can all be abusers as well.

Battleax · 24/02/2018 04:43

Geeky men, drippy men, men that didn't get picked for sports, men that crossdress, men that identify with stereotypically female pursuits: they can all be abusers as well.

Incels for example. Seriously dysfunctional, dangerous people.

unlimiteddilutingjuice · 24/02/2018 07:08

Yes, exactly.

maddiemookins16mum · 24/02/2018 07:25

Stupid is as stupid does.

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 24/02/2018 07:49

ConfessionsOfTeenageDramaQueen give me an example of a time a trans person has personally “eroded” your space and stole your voice.

Because we only need to be worried about anything when it affects us personally? Otherwise we can sit in our ivory towers saying, I'm all right?

God, you sound exactly like a student I once taught who told me that she wasn't a feminist because she didn't need to be as she had never been personally affected by sexism.

ghostyslovesheets · 24/02/2018 07:59

I am astonished that decent trans women can not see the danger lies NOT with women wanting to protect themselves from abuse but by some MEN hijacking their cause to attack women

Why can trans women not understand this - I do not feel at risk from my trans friends - but I do feel at risk from a law that allows ANY MAN to declare themselves a woman and thus access places that are women only for a reason.

We are not the enemy - these 'men' are NOT your friends

kaytee87 · 24/02/2018 08:07

I feel very sorry for people with gender dysphoria, it must be horrible having this mental illness.

The problem I have with self identification is that we're now getting men (who have no intentions of having their penis removed) saying they're women to gain access to women's only spaces. Greenock prison being just one that I can think of (just 18miles from where I live)

lullaluulabelle · 24/02/2018 08:17

I honestly thought that this thread would be from the opposing viewpoint and I was surprised by the rudeness of tone.
Now I see it's essentially from a MRA/ TRA stance I am not surprised by the tone.

How can it be considered stupid to recognise that a person with a penis is male? (even if they've tucked it in or had it removed or refashioned - which most TIMs have not BTW)
What Twilight zone are we living in?

TerfyMcTerface · 24/02/2018 08:21

I am astonished that decent trans women can not see the danger lies NOT with women wanting to protect themselves from abuse but by some MEN hijacking their cause to attack women

Some of them can. There are certainly transwomen who post on here who can see it.

TerfyMcTerface · 24/02/2018 08:31

The OP strated an identical GF thread in November, in which they seemed to struggle to grasp or engage with the points being made. Why not go back and work your way through the responses there, OP instead of perpetuating Groundhog Day?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3078526-To-be-shocked-at-the-sheer-amount-of-hatred-and-ignorance-about-transpeople-on-mumsnet

gingergenius · 24/02/2018 08:33

I notice the OP has cut and run! No surprises there. Well reasoned arguments and considered, respectful viewpoints are no match for irrational outrage are they? Never mind OP. You tried your best and still us 'stupid ' MN users haven't once promoted hatred to a single trans person. Not one of us. As a PP said upthread
"you can be anti-self ID and still compassionate..... The two things are mutually compatible."
Hmm

Ereshkigal · 24/02/2018 08:38

Good spot TERFy! Well well.

Agerbilatemycardigan · 24/02/2018 08:41

Are you a TRA OP?

We seem to have attracted a few recently. They come here pretending they're genuinely ignorant of the issues and either show their true colours by trying to gaslight us, or they flounce off when they realise we aren't falling for their bullshit.

SwarmOfCats · 24/02/2018 08:47

Do you honestly think that a biological male would try to transition into a female if they didn’t absolutely feel that it would rectify their gender dysphoria? A male who was happy in his body would feel too embarrassed or ashamed to do something that other men would view as ridiculous like transitioning into a female.

I have never seen anybody on here speaking badly of genuine transsexuals. I know somebody with gender dysphoria, and she has been living as a woman (woman’s name, women’s clothes etc) for three years now. She is a vulnerable person - despite hormones she still has the markers of a biological male and this can make her a target for some people.

HOWEVER. The problem we have is with self-ID. With this, any man could choose to identify as female (or a woman could identify as male) with no changes to lifestyle, no involvement from medical or psychological professionals. A man could choose to identify as female (without doing anything at all that would set him apart from other men) and could enter spaces designated for women, such as communal swimming pool changing areas, and nobody could challenge this.

An unlikely situation, but another one that explains why this is a problem for biological females: if I go to the doctors for a problem with my reproductive system, I can currently ask for a female doctor, because I’m not comfortable with a man examining me. I could arrive and have a person who presents as male, who quite clearly is a person with a penis, but who identifies as female provided. Would it make me a bigot for asking for somebody else?

LondonHereICome · 24/02/2018 08:54

Ugh! Another stupid thread about this tiresome topic

formerbabe · 24/02/2018 08:55

The thing that annoys me with this issue is that all the emphasis is on how someone looks. I'm a woman...I could shave my head, take off my make up and put on a boiler suit...I'd still be a woman. My oh is a man, he could put on a wig and a dress but he'd still be a man. Clothes, hair and make up have nothing to do with our biological sex.

TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 24/02/2018 08:57

Aye OP - we are the stupid ones, the stupid ones that think these are men. How stupid. They are so obviously ladies.

to ask how MN users can be so stupid about Trans women?
to ask how MN users can be so stupid about Trans women?
to ask how MN users can be so stupid about Trans women?
BlondeB83 · 24/02/2018 09:01

The legislation is far too broad and will be open to abuse, particularly by criminals who would prefer an open women’s prison.

I can understand how, without reading into it, the OP may have jumped to the hatred conclusion but the reality is the new legislation will leave the system wide open to abuse, particularly as the need for a medical diagnosis and the need to change appearance has been taken away.

Genuine trans identifying males/females need rights but this is far too broad.

CharisMater · 24/02/2018 09:02

Identifying as women but certainly not with women. indeed

SwarmOfCats · 24/02/2018 09:04

Ugh! Another stupid thread about this tiresome topic

Another person who hasn’t realised that they don’t have to click on threads that they don’t want to read...