to ask how MN users can be so stupid about Trans women?

[Curiositykilledthecat113]

Why are trans women and men put into the same category? As if trans women are accepted by men. In a world where men are constantly try to look the most “manliest” do you honestly think that transwomen are accepted into this

Cutting off a penis doesn't make them into a female anymore than losing my breasts makes me a man.
You can't be a different sex anymore than aquire a different genetic makeup.
It's just pretence. Illusionary.
A male brain? A female brain? There isn't no such thing. It's been debunked. You are an individual with your brain.

lower themselves to dress as a woman that's a very telling statement right there.
I see you.

It's not just toilets. It's everything. Refuges, needing a female doctor. Sports. On the topic of sports do you think it's OK for a male to compete in female sport just because he has gender dysphoria.

53rdWay Do you have any statistics or evidence to back up your opinion?

Look up the guidelines of any transgender organisation. They define what "transgender" refers to. Read it.

Do you seriously feel that this vulnerable minority group is a threat?

No, trans activists are the threat.

I don't think the issue is genuine transwonen who I understand have been quietly using women's facilities for years. The legislation is too broad enabling any man to self id. So any perve can pretend to be trans to gain access to young girls changing. That's the issue as I understand it anyway.

If men are not to be feared, in private areas, when you’re a woman, than why can’t trans women share their changing rooms and prisons?

Oh yes...

Do you even know one trans person?

Yes, I know a lot of trans people - including some who are horrified by the current transactivism and oppose self-ID.

Do you understand gender dysphoria, which is recognised by medical practitioners?

Yes, I do. Do you understand that self-ID means you don't need gender dysphoria to be trans any more? Are you actually aware of what is going on?

Do you honestly think that a biological male would try to transition into a female if they didn’t absolutely feel that it would rectify their gender dysphoria?

What transitioning is involved? You don't need gender dysphoria, you don't need hormones, you don't need surgery, you don't even need to wear a frock or shave off your beard.

Assuming that you are genuinely unaware about what is going on (and I was once in that position, thinking, what is all the fuss, why can't people just be nice to everyone), this will fill you in on the basics:

sages.org.uk/publications/sages-factsheet.html

It's never been trans people I'm worried about being in areas that are currently or formerly women only areas.

What worries me is that the definition of a trans woman sounds so vague that it seems that almost any male could claim he's a trans woman regardless of manner of dress and go into a women's bathroom.

It is very naive to think that male rapists, paedophiles, and other types of perverts who aren't remotely feeling any urge to transition into being a woman, would not use rules/laws changing things to accommodate trans people as an opportunity they can use to target more victims.

There was a bloke who sat in piles of human shit so he could look at women on the toilet. The lengths men will go to perve on women are extraordinary. Simply saying 'I am women' is a piece of piss in comparison.

Most trans people do not have bottom surgery. For many it is about taking on the superficial stereotypes they see as desirable or getting something they wouldn't have access to like a job, role or sporting achievement.

There are those who are genuinely dysphoric but that does not actually make them the opposite sex. It really doesn't. We need to work on expanding the definition of male not use woman as a dumping ground for anything not manly enough.

Kmart many men Have told me that women are liars and they’re making out like they’re voctims when they’ve been given everything I life for free.

Have you ever looked at a MRA group?

What is the stupidity you are referring to? You have asked "how MN users can be so stupid about Trans women"

And your justification is that no 'man' would lesson himself to the lowly status of being a woman unless he meant it. So we should what then as biological women - welcome them with open arms as they've lessened themselves so far? Praise them? Because who wants to lower themselves in as much as considering themselves a woman?

Right?

so what about transvestites/cross dressers /fetishists? Have we just forgotten about them?

"Do you honestly think that a biological male would try to transition into a female if they didn’t absolutely feel that it would rectify their gender dysphoria? A male who was happy in his body would feel too embarrassed or ashamed to do something that other men would view as ridiculous like transitioning into a female."

Men do things for all sorts of reasons. Some like humiliation. I don't care why a man is trying to pretend to be a woman, because I can't see into anyone's head or their intentions. All I know is that it's Orwellian to tell women that female biology doesn't matter and that there's no such thing as the female sex (which is the current line of transactivists).

Oh just go away.

I know a few MTF trans people. They're nice people, but I don't regard them as women. I will call them she and use the name they introduced themself as because that is polite - the people I know are as feminine presenting as they can physically manage I think.
One of them has actually spent a lot of time with my child, and he just took this person as he found them, and I basically had no feelings on that either way- I neither was so super impressed at how accepting and progressive my child was nor was I outraged at his lack of childlike bluntness to refrain from yelling "that's a man!" across a crowded room. I have never had any problem with trans people as individuals but I do not regard them as the same as me, a woman. They have not been raised female, they don't have a lot of the strengths and weaknesses of people born women.

Coupled with this, when I was 16 I got a job at a clothing shop that was basically for old ladies. I was warned by the manageress that they frequently got what she termed "cross dressers" in the shop. I had one instance of a customer who came in presenting as male, but was very delicately dressed and very well groomed who asked to try some clothes on. I redirected him to a gender neutral changing room and tactfully explained that as we had some older ladies in there we had to keep the changing rooms ladies only.
My manager had a different customer in on another day- as it was quiet and near the end of the day she allowed a man to use the female changing rooms as he had been a regular customer that generally bought a fair bit. Long story short this person sexually assaulted my manager, and had been building up to it by masturbating in the changing rooms when he had been in on previous occasions.
How would me or my manager have known if the customer was likely to be my very nice and polite customer, or her attacker? As I've explained I am all for being considerate to people who are trans who you get to know and treat them as individuals, but there are people out there who are frankly, perverts, and wearing a dress and lipstick to get into a womens only space is not a big deal for these sickos. The current plan for gender self identity sets no bar at all, so my manager's attacker, with his erect penis, is a woman if he says he is? No thanks.

YABU OP. Just because MNetters have a different view to you, doesn't mean they're stupid.

If you're still transitioning, and still with all your bits, you're still a man.
It's not exactly rocket science.

Haven’t read the thread but your first sentence set out the problem.

Even if we could prove biologically that trans women was women not men (not like we ever could, that would defeat all of science as we know it) the fundamental question is WHY, if a man wants to express themselves in a femine why they are rejected by men. Hate crimes towards the LGBT community are fundamentally done by men.

It’s because the social construct of men is that they are manly and women are not, men=power being a “female” male you are:

A Nancy boy
Camp
Camp as chips
Gay
Gay as fuck

And lots of other derogatory terms I don’t wish to know.

Your not a male. You are lesser.

Therefore you must be....

DRUM ROLL.

Female

The trans gender debate should not be a woman’s fight for their rights to be protected. It should be about m why men, can’t accept other males as “one of them” if they aren’t traditionally manly.

It should be focused on why men don’t want these people in their peer group, not why women are rejecting them from theirs.

"Stupid"? Brave little soul aren't you?

Most of us don't care if you wear a ball gown or a clown outfit. Your choice.

Most men don't see Self ID as a problem because it does not affect them directly. ( Unless it's "their" Mum, Wife, Daughter, but most are unaware of the issue at the moment).

Most women, when they stop and think about Self ID and how this means in practice that every man on the planet can come into our toilets, schools, after school activities, sports, shop changing rooms, hospital wards, refuges, without us being able to say "hang on, no, I'm not comfortable with this" becomes suddenly frightened then very very angry.

This is not about trans anymore. This is about MEN invading our spaces and REFUSING to allow us to even talk about it. What happens if we do? We get called names and threatened with rape and death.
I'm not even exaggerating. I really wish I was.

We aren't stupid, OP - we are just seeing this absurd charade for what it is.

Its not your looks that make you a man, its your penis.

yawn There's a lot of them on tonight, isn't there? They must be getting worried about these uppity women not knowing their place.

I'll just continue sipping on my Cointreau, while you lovely posters try to get it through to them. It could take a while.