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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to ask how MN users can be so stupid about Trans women?

197 replies

Curiositykilledthecat113 · 23/02/2018 23:36

Why are trans women and men put into the same category? As if trans women are accepted by men. In a world where men are constantly try to look the most “manliest” do you honestly think that transwomen are accepted into this

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Weebo · 24/02/2018 00:58

I get that River but to be honest I haven't seen a thread concerning the issue where someone hasn't clearly explained what the actual problems are.

If the OP is so offended by this why isn't she/he reading?

Valentinesfart · 24/02/2018 01:00

Here is a list of some offenders that have deliberately target women and children. As is being discussed elsewhere it's hard as transwomen aren't always identified as transgender by some of the more right on papers. People think women have suddenly started raping people Hmm

transcrimeuk.com/2017/11/12/male-transgender-individuals-convicted-of-violence-against-women-children/

Riverside2 · 24/02/2018 01:01

Weebo "I get that River but to be honest I haven't seen a thread concerning the issue where someone hasn't clearly explained what the actual problems are"

Ive seen loads.

Anyway OP I hope the Sage fact sheet is useful to you.

Valentinesfart · 24/02/2018 01:02

Also can no one report this thread please? As it's absolute gold for explaining why this is all bullshit.

DixieFlatline · 24/02/2018 01:02

Do you understand gender dysphoria, which is recognised by medical practitioners?

Do you? Gender dysphoria having a space in a psychiatry reference work does not mean that medical professionals actually think people can be ‘born in the wrong body’. Please tell me you understand this... Shock

cista · 24/02/2018 01:03

To anyone who believes that transwomen are women: please give me one thing that they have in common with each other, that the both do not share with natal men?

(Answer: you can't without resorting to gender stereotypes)

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 24/02/2018 01:05

If a woman is not defined by biology then how are they defined?

littlevoiceofsanity · 24/02/2018 01:06

Isn't there a beginners guide to Self ID thread already?

GRA 2004 (Tony Blair Prime Minister?). Basically to transition you need to spend time as your chosen gender then get 2 doctors certificates to prove you did this, All good to go.

Self ID (consultation for Scotland current now until March 1st 2018, anyone can fill it in) is proposed to become Law (note without real public awareness or discussion). This does away with the need for any time spent as chosen gender or any doctors note.

This is great for those genuine people who felt the process was humiliating and degrading. So far so good.

In practice Self ID means that ANYONE can say they are a man or a woman at any time and access spaces designated for the use of that sex. No documents. No checks. Not even a letter from your Mum.

The fear, not acknowledged by many politicians, is that this gives every flasher, pervert and paedophile the absolute right to enter female only spaces at any time.

The worst part is anyone who stands up and challenges this "stupidity" will be accused of hate crime and is immediately shut up.

This was the Idiots Guide to Self ID. Others on here will do it better but it's late and they are probably not on here at the moment.

GrockleBocs · 24/02/2018 01:07

Those of you expressing sympathy for dysphoria and taking about the struggle to transition are in fact Transphobes.
Dysphoria is a transphobe concept. It stigmatises people who want to be a different gender as mentally ill!
Transition is a societal construct that is imposed by transphobes.
Nobody needs to do anything except feel.

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 24/02/2018 01:09

Why are trans women and men put into the same category?

Hmm Both are male. So..men.

What an odd thread.

Its 'MN users' (ahh a hive mind) who are stupid, for knowing that men are men and that men are not women?

Weebo · 24/02/2018 01:12

Fair enough River but there are plenty of active ones tonight that the OP could have read properly before posting this.

Even ones complaining about the topic are full of explanations.

PerspicaciaTick · 24/02/2018 01:13

If the current definition of "man" isn't working for men, then campaign to broaden that definition. It makes literally no sense to decide that the appropriate reaction is to erase change the definition of "woman" to include differently manly men.

Valentinesfart · 24/02/2018 01:13

If a woman is not defined by biology then how are they defined?

Lady brains. And if you haven't got one its cause you're a man.

Best line up for that pay raise now.

Theshittyendofthestick · 24/02/2018 01:17

Isn't this a question you should be asking men? Why do women always have to be accommodating and 'nice'. Boils my bloody piss but then I am not in the mood for this bollocks tonight

Battleax · 24/02/2018 01:17

There’s clearly a lot you’re unaware of OP.

Obviously everyone is more than happy to bring you up to speed but you could have been a LOT politer about asking.

emmcan · 24/02/2018 01:26

All owners of a penis are potential rapists. That is why non-penis owners need their own space away from penis owners. However those penis owners choose to identify.

JustOneMoreStep · 24/02/2018 01:29

I was viciously assulted, at knifepoint and the knife was then used 'as contraception' (explaination given in court) by a man. I absolutely stand by the rights of others to be what and who they want to be, but shouldn't that be a two way street? Do I (and the literally thousands of other born women) not have the right to have spaces where I can feel safe whilst otherwise in a vulnerable state e,g. Needing to use the toilet or get changed at the swimming pool? I am getting better, but have been literally terrified of people, men still pose me a challenge to me, but on my own recovery I have been known to hide in public toilets whilst having a panic attack - a safe space from the perspective of being faced (and overwealmed) with men. The thing is, if a person is trans and looks like a woman and is behaving as a woman might behave, is generally attempting to fit in minding their own business I almost certainly don't notice them as being trans. If they look like a man and behave like a man, I'm likely to freak out no matter what they identify themselves as. Do I not deserve a safe space so that I can attempt some sort of normal life, protections from the sensory overload that men cause me......it is after all men that screwed me up

PositivelyPERF · 24/02/2018 01:30

Valentinesfart lady brains or lady balls if you believe the nonsense. 😉

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 24/02/2018 01:40

*justonemorestep - that is a horrifying experience you had, I'm so sorry. And yes, you are one of the many examples of why self-ID without any actual attempt to live as a woman is an absolute no-no.
Coming off the back of the #Metoo campaign, showing that the vast majority of women have suffered some level of assault by a male, its horrifies me still that anyone can think this is a good idea.

TruScum · 24/02/2018 02:00

Truscum[3] (pronounced "true scum"), also known as transmedicalist and transfundamentalist,[4] are trans people who delegitimize the gender of other trans people.[5] They claim[6] one can't truly be transgender unless one experiences gender dysphoria, in this context it can sometimes be called physical dysphoria[7], as defined by cisnormative psychiatry[8] and medicine.[9]

Did someone let off the transignal? Grin

Pipe down op, and read, a lot more than you are currently doing.

In this new crazy world you don't need gender dysmorphia to be a transtrender. You don't need to surgically or hormonally alter a thing.

In fact, even mentioning that people like me need certain support around our mental health issues is transphobic. me being concerned that instead of being recognised for what I am, I am now being lumped in with every Tom, Dick and pervert who just fancies being a bit predatory today.

Me saying that I would prefer a separate (i.e. not taking over women's) toilet etc. is considered transphobic.

According to many of todays twitterati I am the most transphobic transsexual to walk this earth Grin

TruScum · 24/02/2018 02:02

JustOneMoreStep Flowers I am so sorry you have had to survive something so horrific.

Myunicornfliessideways · 24/02/2018 02:07

Always interesting how the TRA line is so vehemently insisting they are women, yet women with no interest in women, or women's issues, or women being allowed to talk about their biology or the politics of their biology, or their fears and concerns about self ID.

Identifying 'as' women, but certainly not identifying 'with' women. Woman isn't a costume.

Italiangreyhound · 24/02/2018 02:12

@JustOneMoreStep I am so sorry to hear your experiences. I hope you will get stronger. It is utterly evil that you and other victims of male crime are being faced with this, I wonder if victim support are doing anything to oppose it?

@Curiositykilledthecat113 if you are really interested might you spend 3 minutes reading this... it's old from 2013 and it's from the USA, but I think it explains the concerns very well.

culturallyboundgender.wordpress.com/2013/05/01/percentages-prevalence-and-why-some-women-are-freaked-out-by-this-whole-locker-room-thing/

"It’s hard to estimate the actual number of men who are or will become rapists in the United States. While very large percentages of women and smaller percentages of men are rape victims, studies suggest that a large majority of rapes are committed by rapists who rape several different individuals, resulting in there being a smaller percentage of rapists than rape victims. However, the prevalence of rapists in the male population is still estimated at somewhere in the vicinity of 10 percent.

Let’s take a high school as our setting for a bathroom conflict of interests, so I can show you why it’s complicated to allow transwomen access to women’s spaces at some times, and why that doesn’t mean in any way that someone believes all trans women, most trans women, or even ANY trans women are rapists.

Let’s say this high school is about the size of the high school I attended back in the age of the dinosaurs–so about 1500 students.

That’s 750 males, 750 females.

Based on the prevalence of trans people in the population (around three-tenths of a percent), if all trans kids came out, there would be about 4-5 trans students in the school, 2-3 of whom would be trans girls.

Now, let’s say you have a locker room–it could be a locker room like the one I had to change in every day, the girls’ swimming locker room, in which full nudity was necessary for changing into and out of your bathing suit. It’s my contention that the issue isn’t with the 2-3 trans girls, who are just trying to escape male violence that they could be exposed to in the men’s locker room.

Let’s consider, for a moment, the 75 rapists.

Out of 750 boys in the school, 75 of them are already or will become rapists at some point in their lifetime. A number of the ones who do not become actual rapists will still be creeps of some variety, including your garden-variety flashers, subway masturbators, and abusers.

Do you sincerely believe that out of 75 men sociopathic enough to believe rape is something they’re entitled to, not one of those men would see a naked-girls-changing-clothing space as so worth invading that it’s also worth jumping through some gender hoops for?

Think of the most psychotic assholes who went to your high school. If they were anything like the people who went to mine, they were males who’d have done basically anything to be creepy perverted assholes. They knew how to suck up to people in power to make it all look unintentional, so they never got in trouble.

And all it takes is one. When women’s locker rooms aren’t penis-free zones, the first rape that occurs makes women less likely to go to the gym, to participate in sports, to gain all of the benefits of physical activity that those locker rooms once gave them access to. Women’s locker rooms, especially for pools and other spaces involving full nudity, were never comfortable places for me as a young woman–but neither were they places where I felt like I had to fear rape.

Now, this means–painfully clearly!–that there should be some place for trans* people to change and use the bathroom where they are not subject to that kind of risk, because those 75 rapists are still around in the men’s locker room. Please know that I’m not saying that trans women should just use men’s facilities, risking harm."

Hidingtonothing · 24/02/2018 02:15

Identifying 'as' women, but certainly not identifying 'with' women. Love this, spot on Star

WickedLazy · 24/02/2018 02:21

"If men are not to be feared, in private areas, when you’re a woman, than why can’t trans women share their changing rooms and prisons?"

^This!

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