To feel uncomfortable with SIL not vaccinating nephew

[CambozolaCrackers]

Have name changed for obvious reasons.....would appreciate some guidance on how to broach an awkward family situation going forward.

B and SIL have decided not to vaccinate their son (8 months).
My DS is 5 months and has been vaccinated.

Today we met up for swim class which both babies attend weekly.

I was concerned to see my DS had angry red rash across torso and brought him to a&e after the class to get checked out.

In short, I’ve been told it is a ‘viral exanthem’ rash, no meds prescribed - just one of those things that happen, and not to worry.

I’ve told my BIL and SIL what I’ve been told by the doctor. My worry is that at some point we are going to pass on something and put my nephew’s health at risk...or that my nephew will catch something dreadful that he has not been vaccinated against.

The anti vaxxer argument is not something that sits comfortably with me, but equally it’s very difficult to criticise other people’s parenting decisions - especially when it is family.

Any advice on how to best protect our kids going forward.

Corblimey, I will always come back to the point that it is not my baby who needs to be vaccinated to protect a pregnant woman.

If the woman in question cannot be vaccinated then she’s at risk from everyone who can’t be vaccinated. Asking a baby to take a risk for women old enough to be responsible for their own healthcare is not something that I’m prepared to do. My decision does not put other children st risk because rubella is not harmful to children. It is only harmful to unborn foetuses, ergo, the ones who need to be vaccinated are expectant mothers.

Dolphin, thank you- it is good to hear the other perspective.

I don’t agree, and I know you don’t agree with me, but I think it’s good to talk about it and ask questions.

What I am really struggling with your point is how you then ensure that the risk to others is minimised. In most cases the immune-compromised won’t know whether they are in contact with someone possibly carrying something harmful to them. Equally you won’t always know whether a woman is pregnant and whether your child is carrying rubella. I understand that you cannot carry a sign round. I just cannot understand why you would dismiss that risk and say that it’s the other immuno-compromised person’s responsibility to protect themselves against an unseen decision you made for your child?

My child was immuno-comprised for years after birth. Now fit and healthy. I would have been devastated if someone had failed to give me the choice of keeping my children away from a carrier of a potentially life threatening illness because they felt it was my responsibility to mind read.

Sorry Dolphin, I’m not trying to be nasty but I just don’t get that aspect of your choice.

Yes, but Corblimey, it’s still not my responsibility and it’s certainly not my child’s.

Some diseases when caught in childhood are very mild and give a lifetime of immunity. Rubella, mumps, chicken pox are all examples of these. I also really don’t like that flu jab: anecdotally, I have seen far too many people get very unwell after it.

However measles, meningitis, yes. Rubella for a teenage girl who hasn’t obtained natural immunity, yes, likewise mumps for a teenage boy.

I’m not anti vax at all. But I am very anti the government deciding that my babies take a risk for adults. Morally, I don’t see how anyone can say that’s right.

So you put totally unsuspecting women at risk of congenital rubella syndrome. What issues are you seeking to avoid that are caused by vaccination? Better hope any daughters you have remember to get vaccinated before trying to conceive

Yes, throw, because it’s really very simple.

On reaching puberty, you check if a teenage girl has immunity to rubella and if not, vaccinate her then, and the same for a teenage boy with mumps.

It really isn’t hard. If we can remember to get smear tests every three years we can remember to do this.

Garmadonsmum - I know but I wouldn’t vaccinate for flu either, personally.

If his feckless parents aren’t concerned why should you be.

Your child is protected. Hers is not. There is nothing you can do to protect him as his parents have opted out of the system, most probably because they've "done their research" on Google.

He might be fine and sail through childhood with only very minor cases of mumps. On the other hand, he might get something a lot more serious. Their gamble, their risk. Unfortunately, his consequences.

I wouldn’t interfere, it’s their decision, no one else’s. In reality, because the vast majority are sensible enough to vaccinate, your nephew has a relatively low risk of catching something awful, so try not to worry too much.

I would hope that the parents have a good reason, but if I were you I wouldn’t discuss it with them at all and leave it be.

And there you go... the world is split into two groups.

Those who engage with the social contract and are willing to protect unborn children from diseases like rubella through herd immunity.

And those who won’t.

Dolphincrossing
At the moment rubella is virtually nonexistant in the uk. Over 90% of lab tests come back negative and less than 10 cases a year.
Rubella is not an easy disease to catch in child hood, which is why so many babies in the womb are affected , 10s of 1000s in the US in the 60s, they had to open bulge classes for children in colleges for the deaf.
My mother didnt get it until she was 38 in the last big epidemic in the uk and she gave it to us 3 teenage daughters. This was when they vaccinated at 14. I was the eldest and due the vaacine a few weeks later.
When they were just vaccinating teenager girls there were still cases of CRS. It is only since mmr we have only been able to eliminate rubella.
There is no evidence that a single measles jab is safer than mmr, yhere is no additional risk to having the rubella and mumps companant.
Mumps causes deafness, diabetes and encephaltis along with sterility in men and affects ovaries in women. Even when there have been cases of mumps in teenagers at university, they have usually only had one mmr , but they tend to have less or no complication, compared to those who havent been vaccinated.

People do realise that vaccines do not offer lifelong immunity, even for those for whom it actually works... Nothing is a guarantee. Being smug because your child is ‘protected’ and the ‘feckless’ parents not vaccinating are foolish isn’t as clear cut as you’d think.

Girls need vaccinating for mumps, too, mumps affects ovaries.

Dolphin, it's not that simple. I am saddened that people as selfish as you exist. You didn't answer my question re the damage you hope to avoid with vaccines. Also can you point me in the direction of the evidence that most vaccinated women aren't immune from rubella by the time they reach child bearing age? The evidence I found all points to the opposite.

stopping screening fir rubella

For kids without any health problems, being vaccinated is a much lower risk than having the disease concerned. There's nothing you can do as vaccination is not compulsory.

Parents are showing inability to assess risk and lack of critical thinking skills, but we don't assess for those when allowing people to breed.

ChaosNeverRains - I’m not sure where you get your info about chicken pox - but the World health organisation recommends countries vaccinate against it and both America and Australia have free programmes for chicken pox vaccination.

Chaosneverrains
In my friends and acquantances chickenpox has proved serious

Ds friend had a stroke caused by chickenpox at 6 Was paralysed half of his body and had to learn to walk again.

Father of child at dc nursery died.

Friend dd had leukhemia and came into contact with ds the day before spots came out. Thankfully informed her quickly and she had her 4th visit to GOSH to get the special vaccine to prevent her getting CP as it was deadly for her.

zzzzz
You’re vaccinated you won’t be passing on any of the diseases you’re vaccinated against. Relax. Don’t invite them to mix with any of your friends children who aren’t vaccinated though

I don't understand this. Why is this particular unvaccinated child more likely to be dripping in diseases than their friends' unvaccinated children?
Why do people think that unvaccinated (for medical or any other reason) kids are dripping in diseases in the first place? In my experience they seem stronger and healthier than vaccinated children (and I have one of each).
Should children who can't be vaccinated also be treated like lepers?

And what I really don't understand: it was the OP's vaccinated child that had the rash...not the unvaccinated child.... If the unvaccinated child had been the one with the rash I can just imagine the OP's hysteria!!

Raisins, no-one said they are dripping in disease. It's just that they aren't vaccinated against some diseases and may therefore catch them whereas most vaccinated children wouldn't. It's not really an area where anecdotal evidence is relevant, it's pretty clear cut how vaccination and herd immunity works.

Dolphin do you have experience of adult onset mumps?

DH caught it the year before we met, mid twenties super healthy. Its a notifiable disease. He was floored for weeks. And he got the type that affects male fertility with all the worry and expense that caused. Am sure if he had found his mother had refused a widely available vaccine which the majority of his peers had, because in her opinion mumps "isn't that bad" he would be rightly pretty cross.

KERALA1
So he was vaccinated but still got mumps?

No - we too old for the mumps vaccinations - weren't done for us as kids. I remember getting mumps age 6. He was never vaccinated.

The main argument is that for all vaccinations to work we need the required percentage of people (children) to have them. In that way we protect all in society including those who cannot have them. It’s a no brained really. We do it to help everyone, not just ourselves.

KERALA1 , isn't the problem now that immunity from the mumps vaccination wanes in early adulthood leaving adults not immune? Wouldn't it be better to have a vaccination programme for adults?