To feel uncomfortable with SIL not vaccinating nephew

[CambozolaCrackers]

Have name changed for obvious reasons.....would appreciate some guidance on how to broach an awkward family situation going forward.

B and SIL have decided not to vaccinate their son (8 months).
My DS is 5 months and has been vaccinated.

Today we met up for swim class which both babies attend weekly.

I was concerned to see my DS had angry red rash across torso and brought him to a&e after the class to get checked out.

In short, I’ve been told it is a ‘viral exanthem’ rash, no meds prescribed - just one of those things that happen, and not to worry.

I’ve told my BIL and SIL what I’ve been told by the doctor. My worry is that at some point we are going to pass on something and put my nephew’s health at risk...or that my nephew will catch something dreadful that he has not been vaccinated against.

The anti vaxxer argument is not something that sits comfortably with me, but equally it’s very difficult to criticise other people’s parenting decisions - especially when it is family.

Any advice on how to best protect our kids going forward.

I’m with Dolphin. There are risks with some vaccines for some people and there is such a thing as vaccine damage (albeit very rare). I personally think we over vaccinate - I get it for measles and meningitis but chicken pox? Rubella for boys? Mumps for girls? Whooping cough? Personally, no, I don’t think that’s necessary.

It’s ultimately up to each parent to make the decision for their child - it is entirely their responsibility and their decision. And I’m not sure it’s fair to call people the names they have been called on here because they dare make a different decision to you.

It’s got to the point where people are afraid to tell anyone they haven’t vaccinated because they are scared of the vitriol that comes their way.

Dwangela - you can contact your GP and ask for an immunity screen if you're worried about it, might put your mind at rest? I'm not sure if you can have a booster when pregnant but you could ask.

@BertieBotts I think I'm going to phone them tomorrow, I read you can't have MMR injection when pregnant tho 😢

Hedger Mon 19-Feb-18 21:00:28

I’m with Dolphin. There are risks with some vaccines for some people and there is such a thing as vaccine damage (albeit very rare). I personally think we over vaccinate - I get it for measles and meningitis but chicken pox? Rubella for boys? Mumps for girls? Whooping cough? Personally, no, I don’t think that’s necessary.

Unvaccinated boys can still pass Rubella on to a pregnant woman, and mumps affects the glands, so yes vaccinate girls, too. Whooping cough? A young relative of mone caught it, and it was very distressing to both toddler and parents. So yes, that too.

I've just looked at the guidance advising that the MMR isn't given during pregnancy. Seems to have been published in 2015, as I certainly was given it during one of my pregnancies in the early 2000s.

WheresTheHooferDoofer

So the one who needs to be vaccinated is the expectant mother, not babies.

But Hoofer, if women are vaccinated against Rubella (and have the necessary boosters) why do boys need it?

Mumps affects the glands, yes, but lots of viruses do? I don’t think that’s a terrible thing?

Whooping cough is pretty horrible - I had it myself when I was little. But I think catching these (generally non-life threatening) illnesses is good for the immune system. I don’t think it’s a good idea to immunise against everything under the sun.

Not all women are vaccinated against Rubella, and if they have been, that immunity may have worn off. Even with boosters, that's actually no guarantee of immunity.

I was given Rubella vaccination under the old system, aged 13. There was no booster under that system, which continued for some time after I was vaccinated.

The MMR was introduced in 1988. This means there are many 30 something women out there who may, or may not be protected, and who will not necessarily have had boosters. The first they are likely to know about their lack of immunity will be on being tested in pregnancy, when it's not advised to vaccinate so they have no protection for their baby. And as many 30 something women are having babies, getting boys vaccinated will go a long way to protecting these women and their babies.

So just so we are clear

Vaccinate babies to protect hypothetical pregnant women, that is the argument, yes?

Rather than testing immunity of women of child bearing age and offering the vaccination to those without immunity?

Mumps can affect girls just as badly as boys, and can also in some case lead to ciral meningitis. Whooping cough can also kill in rare cases, especially in very young babies. It can also cause other serious complications, such as seizures, kidney issues and pneumonia.

In fact, my dad had mumps when my mum was pregnant with DBro and was briefly hospitalised. So yes, I agree with vaccinations for these illnesses.

it's going to be far cheaper to test for immunity when a woman becomes pregnant, than to initiate a braod testing programme. I don't see any government agreeing to this, so feel that continuing with vaccinating both girls and boys is the best option at this time.

Yes, exactly, it is about cost.

So the government may make the decision that is most cost effective, meanwhile, I will make the one that most suits my child.

Rubella is massively infectious. Also, women don't always know that they're pregnant straight away. They can catch Rubella and the foetus can be irreparably damaged before anyone realises. This is why as many people should be vaccinated against it as possible.

Op I disagree with not vaccinating and think it's a stupid risk, bit so long as your child is vaccinated I don't think you need to worry. Your dc would be protected against all the vaccinated diseases, so couldn't catch anything from or harbour anything to pass onto your dn?

But there are a lot of viruses that can lead to meningitis and seizures - like influenza (which can also kill).

But I totally get why you would prefer to vaccinate rather than take the risk. I just think people should also have the right not to without being made to feel like a terrible human being.

I think it’s important that people should be able to have an open conversation about these things without being shut down/called some of the names they have on this thread.

Radical,women not knowing they are pregnant does not mean that babies need to be vaccinated for them.

If you are of child bearing age, then it is your responsibility to ensure you are immune from rubella, not the responsibility of a baby.

20 chicken pox deaths on average a year chaos, not 1. Starting to give the average year of child deaths from flu a run for its money and that vaccine is massively promoted. I paid for the chicken pox vaccine, my friends dc ended up in itu with this 'mild childhood' illness.

Hedger I can't believe you think whooping cough isn't worth a vaccine, babies die from it and I'm sure I'd heard it was on the increase?
I had it (the illness) myself and I'm still here but my dm describes it as being very hairy.

I had my rubella immunity tested before getting pg in my 30s and it was fine.

Garmadonsmum - Many more people die from the flu. It’s just my personal choice. Not saying it’s a better choice than anyone else’s - I just don’t like the vitriol directed at those who choose not to vaccinate.

My SIL did this OP and because we live in Australia, that's no small decision. Here they can cut off your parenting payments for non vaccination AND refuse admission to kindergarten.

SIL seems to expect MIL to provide childcare for her non vaxxed child.. I
m just glad I am not havng more babies as if I were, they wouldn't be around her son!

Hedger we vaccinate against flu too.

I think people forget the child will grow up and realise they’re not vaccinated, and probably be quite pissed off.
I wasn’t given any injections as a child and I’m bloody furious at my parents for leaving me so vulnerable for so long.
As an adult I’ve now had everything but took nearly a year to get up to speed on them all.
It’s the parents decision at the moment but you’re raising someone who will be able to think for themselves and then resent your SIL for it.

I am pro vaccine, I have a cousin who got whooping cough at a young age and got brain damage as a result.
my aunt, is partially deaf and has curved spine as her mother caught rubella when pregnant with her.

see the living damage has coloured my view considerably.

I have family members who also cant be vaccinated for all vaccines due to rare and rather nasty syndrome. At least we are around them fully vaccinated.
oddly enough this syndrome is mistaken for vaccine damage, its the trigger but not the cause. I think there is a lot of complex syndrome either not diagnosed or diagnosed incorrectly and leads to wrong conclusions.

Despite having the MMR, it didn’t take with me and I discovered this when I was tested in pregnancy. The advice was to avoid anyone unvaccinated as you can’t receive the MMR in pregnancy (they give it before you leave hospital after giving birth and a booster at the 6 week check up if I remember correctly).

In my second pregnancy they told me they’ve stopped screening for rubella immunity so I got tested privately because so many parents I’d met at various toddler groups had mentioned they don’t vaccinate. Luckily I found out I was immune, but a friend of mine was unable to vaccinate their baby on schedule because of low immunity and had to avoid unvaccinated people, which made it very difficult to do anything child related.

Dolphin, what about women (which are ttc) who cannot be vaccinated, and other children who cannot be vaccinated?

Your decision puts them at risk. Your decision it’s unborn babies at risk. I accept that as a parent your responsibility is firstly to your own children, but when it comes to vaccines you really cannot dismiss some as ‘not relevant’ to your child when in fact your child could pass on rubella to a pregnant woman.

What do you do to mitigate these risks arising from your decision? Do you have the courtesy to tell people so that they can make a decision regarding their best interests? The most dangerous part of the pregnancy for rubella is very early on when pregnancy may not be known to you or the mother- how do you ensure that your children don’t put an unborn child at risk?