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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that inducing lactation in a man with illegal drugs is not the best way to feed a newborn?

145 replies

DrudgeJedd · 11/02/2018 21:08

www.romper.com/p/a-transgender-woman-has-exclusively-breastfed-her-baby-its-a-dream-come-true-8146751/amp?__twitter_impression=true
This is child abuse not a scientific breakthrough. For 6 weeks that baby was fed a mix of artificial hormones and banned medication to validate the gender identity of a man.

OP posts:
GnotherGnu · 11/02/2018 22:47

Biology, how do you know that this is simply to validate self-perception? Suppose it is for the benefit of the baby who may otherwise not be breast fed at all?

And how is this experimentation when it's a well-established and recognised technique?

GnotherGnu · 11/02/2018 22:48

I’d hazard a guess that the research into this assumed that the owner of the breasts would be a female.

And?

BiologyMatters · 11/02/2018 22:49

Formula is better than artificially stimulating a man to produce milk using god knows what that gets passed to the baby.

bf1000 · 11/02/2018 22:49

I'm not sure how to link but it's part of the world health organisation guidelines

Hedgehoghogger · 11/02/2018 22:49

There is no evidence to say that the milk in this situation is better than formula.

That hierarchy comes from women making milk with their hormones. This is an experiment with no known safe outcome.

kitkatsky · 11/02/2018 22:51

@drudgejedd agree! Tho as a biological female I felt mega pressure to breast feed and used domperidone. The article posted by the op proves this isn’t simple, just wondered how ppl feel about non patents breadtfeeding

hazeyjane · 11/02/2018 22:52

Donor feeding doesn't tend to use the milk of people who had to use a cocktail of drugs in order to lactate.

The article states this was a research project, involving several medical professionals, and several imported drugs over a fairly long period, it clearly took funding of some sort, and as a pp says, I find it fairly Shocking that the doctors actively colluded with this fetishisation of biological motherhood. and got funding for it.

y

Original poster
DrudgeJedd · 11/02/2018 22:54

And how is this experimentation when it's a well-established and recognised technique?
Inducing lactation in males is well-established? I obviously missed a few memos.

OP posts:
Youcanstayundermyumbrella · 11/02/2018 22:55

Women unable to physically breastfeed are currently given no medical help to do so whatsoever. Some are lucky enough to have a GP who will prescribe domperidone but many don't. Lactation support is being cut to the bone. Conditions that merit an automatic referral to an endocrinologist in the States (if you have the right insurance) are ignored by the NHS. Women with breasts that are genetically malformed are not eligible for any sort of attention in pregnancy. I hope if this research offers any hormonal solutions to breastfeeding issues that they are made available to women as well as transwomen because it causes such heartbreak.

I would note that it's incredibly difficult to access NHS cosmetic breast surgery as a woman; the bar for psychological or physical distress is now very, very high. I don't know how comparable that is for transwomen - it may be the same.

Historicallyinaccurate · 11/02/2018 23:02

Biology bf isn't sexual, it certainly isn't something someone does as a fetish.
Actually, there is a whole fetish based upon this.

If a male is after a quick thrill he's going to find out pretty quick that bf is painful to get established, time consuming and definitely not sexual
And perhaps this is why the experiment apparently didn't last very long.

I hope if this research offers any hormonal solutions to breastfeeding issues that they are made available to women as well as transwomen because it causes such heartbreak.
So do I, but I seriously doubt it, given the current climate of women's rights vs trans women's rights.
(Just to add, I have nothing whatsoever against trans women who have actually fully committed to being a woman.)

hazeyjane · 11/02/2018 23:03

GnotherGnu
Biology, how do you know that this is simply to validate self-perception? Suppose it is for the benefit of the baby who may otherwise not be breast fed at all?

Well I would hazard a guess that enabling a transgender individual to experience something that is usually exclusive to women, is the more likely aim, considering the fact that
A) it was carried out in collaboration with a transgender health organisation
And
B) when most women find themselves unable to breastfeed or struggling to breastfeed, even if they pump or use domperidone to induce lactation - they tend not to then turn to the baby's father and say, 'ok, well I've given it a good go, here's the domperidone and breast pump....crack on'.

Where are all the medical studies into inducing fathers to breastfeed to raise rates of breastfeeding??

Original poster
DrudgeJedd · 11/02/2018 23:04

kitkatsky I also felt the pressure to get breastfeeding right. Any woman who wants to breastfeed her child should have the support she needs to do what is best for her and her baby. What the parents and doctors did in this case doesn't seem to be that.

OP posts:
Thisusernamethingistricky · 11/02/2018 23:07

Biology bf isn't sexual, it certainly isn't something someone does as a fetish. If a male is after a quick thrill he's going to find out pretty quick that bf is painful to get established, time consuming and definitely not sexual

Yes, and this experiment only lasted 6 weeks...

GnotherGnu · 11/02/2018 23:07

OP, you're being deliberately obtuse. As noted above, inducing lactation in people who would not otherwise do so is a well-recognised technique.

LangCleg · 11/02/2018 23:07

The article states this was a research project, involving several medical professionals, and several imported drugs over a fairly long period, it clearly took funding of some sort, and as a pp says, I find it fairly Shocking that the doctors actively colluded with this fetishisation of biological motherhood. and got funding for it.

Apparently, it was crowdfunded. The HCPs comprised an endocrinologist and a nurse. No obstetrician, no paediatrician. The entire article has no mention of the health of the mother or any effects on her. There is no information about the make-up of the milk produced - nutritional content, presence of colostrum, nothing. No discussion of potential side effects for the baby; only for the trans male with induced lactation were any health concerns discussed.

This is a child protection issue.

Shame on all of you who actually think affirming a trans person's inner identity by experimenting on a child is something that can be excused, let alone bloody celebrated.

Thank God there are some medical ethics left in the UK, unlike the US.

GnotherGnu · 11/02/2018 23:08

There's an awful lot of "hazarding a guess" on here. And all to support one agenda.

Thisusernamethingistricky · 11/02/2018 23:09

Biology, how do you know that this is simply to validate self-perception? Suppose it is for the benefit of the baby who may otherwise not be breast fed at all?

Surely if this actually was the case, they would have at the very least got a female to do the feeding?

Thisusernamethingistricky · 11/02/2018 23:09

Shame on all of you who actually think affirming a trans person's inner identity by experimenting on a child is something that can be excused, let alone bloody celebrated.

Yes, this.

hazeyjane · 11/02/2018 23:14

Ok, so this experiment was carried for benefit of the baby, who needed an an alternative source of milk

I think my hazard a guess, is more likely than yours, but hey yo.

Fekko · 11/02/2018 23:19

All this time and money spent on this experiment.

Is it part of looking at a cure for breast cancer? Infertility? Dementia? Prostate cancer? MS?

Just because something can be done doesn’t mean it ought to be.

Original poster
DrudgeJedd · 11/02/2018 23:23

gnothergnu I'm not the one being obtuse here, you are. "People" don't lactate women do.

OP posts:
Crocusqueen · 11/02/2018 23:27

If men can breastfeed just as well as women can, then why aren't many more doing so? Why haven't we seen studies on this? Why have women been the ones to breastfeed? Why have we bothered at all?

I have seen comments elsewhere made by transactivists on how this baby is lucky because "breast is best" and it didn't have to rely on formula. Strange, this sudden concern for the benefits of bf over ff. Firstly, what happened to "chest" feeding? Secondly, if men can breastfeed, why haven't they stepped up to feed their babies when their partners have been unsuccessful? Or is formula good enough for the babies of "cis" women?

hazeyjane · 11/02/2018 23:30

Langcleg, it doesn't say in the article that it was crowd funded, it says that studies like this are the exception to the rule. So, most Trans healthcare ends up being crowdsourced from other Trans people

Datun · 11/02/2018 23:31

Late transitioning transwomen who are attracted to women often have autogynephilia.

It can definitely manifest as a breast feeding fetish. (As well as a pregnancy fetish and a menstuation fetish).

No-one knows the details in this case.

But I know where my money would be.

floriad · 11/02/2018 23:36

Datun

I'm really not for this. It seems unnecessary and potentially dangerous (for the baby. I'm fairly certain that this hormonal cocktail - especially with HRT - hasn't been studied at all).

But making such... accusations about this being a fetish? When it involves a family and a child?

idk. It reminds me too much of the things I used to hear about same sex couples and parenting...