To think the parents should talk to us

[Vanessatiger]

Our daughter had started pre-school this autumn. The neighbour boy started the same school and was placed in the same class as her. We were quite apprehensive that he got placed in the same class because he has on at least 4 occasions during the year from aged 2-3 hit, bit and pushed her. He’s quite known within the community to be rather aggressive.

In the end of October we pulled her out of school because he was taunting her almost daily and she got so sad when I picked her up, she would tell us that she got pushed and fell on her head, and she’d come back with bite marks on her shoulders and arms.
The head teacher would tell me she got bitten or hit but he never revealed who it was, it’s the school’s policy. But our daughter is very verbal so would tell us the name of who hurt her.

I spoke to the mother of the boy several times, she always just fobbed it off and then excused herself to leave. I asked the school to do something about it. They said he’s just a three year old being a three year old. I told the school he needs additional help as he has bitten numerous kids (i found out by speaking to the other parents). The school said he just need being watched by the head teacher. So I’ve seen the head teacher always playing with him in the school yard leaving the 19 other children with the assistant teacher. I complained to school about it as it’s unfair to the other kids.
I asked the parents to speak to us.
Parents refused.
School thinks it’s all fine.

This is a private school in a small community in a expatriate area in a developing country. The director was appointed due to no interest in the job, she’s a trained teacher who was a parent at the school previously. There’s no accountability and they don’t want to put extra resources due to cost issues.
We got fed up so pulled our daughter out.

AIBU to think the parents (who are our neighbours) owe us an apology. Her husband has work relations with my husband, and I’ve spoken to the mother several times. From what I’ve gathered she doesn’t think the boy needs extra help and she got offended I complained to the school about him.

OP, it might be worth considering play therapy for your child if she shows signs of continued upset or anxiety from this experience. My DS has had some psychologist sessions recently due to his own disability and I was surprised that his experiences in reception came out as part of those sessions, with the psychologist attributing some anxiety and anger (which he internalises) to those early experiences. I worked really, really hard to support him emotionally through his experiences as a young child of being physically attacked, but I wish that I had got some professional support at the time.

Thank you all for your supportive words

Sensimilla
Get a grip

I don't think Sensimilla needs to 'get a grip' at all. With all that her and her DD have been through and are still going through she deserves all the support in the world. That was a terribly cuntish comment.

Thankyou sparticus
Im going to have to step away from this thread

Good luck OP to you and your family. And to anyone else who is experiencing bullying. Its devestating, in its literal sense

Look it's awful when your child is hurt and I know that it is absolutely normal fir parents to feel very upset when their young child, especially with the first child, is hurt by another. To be honest I would want to remove my child from the scenario you describe because clearly the nursery is inadequate. All children ha e a right to be safe.

Having said that, it does not follow that the little boy is "horrible", that his parents owe you an apology or that the community should shun the boy and his family. That is a dreadful attitude.

OP you need to grow up a bit and realise that all children are different. It sounds very much as though the little boy has additional needs. He sounds very frustrated. His poor parents no doubt struggle to manage his behaviour and on top of that they have found themselves to be in a small, narrow minded community. How lonely and hurt they must feel.

All parents need non judgmental support, especially those who have children with special needs. It is a very difficult path to travel.

If the nursery cannot keep your child safe, I think it's time to take her out. But don't blame a boy who is a mere three years old and struggling with everyday situations. None of this is his fault.

People need to get past the blame game. Life is not always smooth. Things go pear shaped but it doesn't mean someone needs to be hung out to dry. Face it, rethink things, and try to learn something that'll make you a better person.

Sorry OP I missed lots of posts! And that you'd pulled your daughter out. Good move. All the best. You're not alone in how you feel.

He isn't naughty he has sen issues. I worked with sen children in a school setting and as restbite care.

Can I first say I hope you daughter is alright and I'm sorry this has happened.
Secondly sen is hard to diagnose at such an age and can be very hard for a parent to deal with physically and emotionally. May I suggest watching a bbc1 tv show called "the a word". It gives an insight to sen and how it can effect different family members of someone with sen.

Behaviours are hard to deal with and the head teacher playing instead of punishing could actually be more proactive. Any attention is good attention. So better to be calm and encouraging.

I'm not saying what's happened to your dd is at all right but for a family dealing with sen the talking behind backs and blaming of parents is really not very nice either. The parents can't blame anyone for this situation. Sounds like they need support not redicure.

zzz

I think what posters are finding ‘odd’ is you saying that parents should not apologise for their child’s behavior if they aren’t there when they misbehave or hit another child repeatedly to the point where that child is removed from the school.

You didn’t answer my question. If your child went on a play date and broke a vase, would you apologise on behalf of them? Or would you blame the mother of the other child as she should of been supervising better and offer no apology whatsoever?

The mother doesn’t HAVE to do anything but it’s human decency to apologise if your child is repeatedly physically harming another child. I despair at the selfish ‘well it’s not my problem’ attitude. If you truly want your child to be treated kindly and for people to have empathy with your situation, perhaps extend that to others.

From what the OP has said (and that’s all we can take from the post, there is of course another side) the parents are doing nothing to help this child. So yes, it is the parents fault as they seem to be turning a blind eye to the issues this child could have.

You also said it would be wrong to apologise for your child’s behaviour and ‘what would that be teaching my child’. Please explain what would that be teaching your child? How can any negativity come from apologizing on behalf of them for hitting?

Nowhere did I write the boy is “horrible “?

I also missed the bit where you (OP) said that the community should shun the boy and his family...

My son has been the biter, the pusher, the sensory seeking child. It’s hard for both parents.

I know we are in the Uk but it’s very much a case here of after the horse has bolted, it’s really not as easy as people think in the uk if you have a child with challenging behvaiour.

I had to put my son in mainstream nursery to show that his needs were significant enough to require statementing and specialist education. It was also part of the diagnostic assessments.

I then had to sit through 2 panels to get him in to a specialist placement, this involved various specialist reports, time and stress.

We then got him in to the placement and 2 years down the line they can’t meet needs, there are no suitable schools for him in my county and the suitable schools are all non maintained inderpendant special school. This requires more meetings more that 2 panels, the likelihood of a tribunal, more money more harmful behaviour from my son. This is likely to take up to a year. I can not home school him as he would have no education during this time as he would not sit down for me at all.

I do say sorry to the parents of the children my son hurts at school because they are my friends and I am genuinely sorry my son has caused harm that’s if I can work out which child it is ( there are only 7). My son hasalso been bitten and hurt by others and if the parent suspect it’s my son who has got the worst of it they will always say sorry. The difference is we are all in the same boat and all are children are SEN. The parents at my NT school would be out for blood and I would feel very very worried, gossiped about and hurt if they were talking about my son the way you were.

I could not take him through the gate at my daughters school as he was spitting at everyone due to not liking the crowd, I try and control his behaviour however parents at my daughter school feel it's fine for their darling children to surround my child and take the piss out of his speech, his spinning or the fact he can’t talk well, they glance over call their child away without meeting my eye or offering an apology- it cuts both ways. It’s got to the point where I am so hurt, angry and upset that I am on the defence the whole time,I imagine this could be how the mother is feeling.

However the responsibility of my sons behaviour lies with the school at school and me at home. They are very good probably as they are trained to be, he sometimes needs 2 to 1 as he has no sense of danger.

If some child had hurt my son I may feel annoyed on behalf of my child and may even feel a bit resentful twords the child for a brief minute or 2 but I would be going absolutely ape at the school if it was a pattern and happening often. Every child has a right to feel safe at school but it is the schools responsibility and not the parents. I think you have done the right thing in moving your child and hopefully she will settle well. But bear in mind that may be the only school that will take the little boy, be thankful you have choices when you have a child with SEN you have very very few.

If someone sends their child on a playdate they retain some responsibility for what happens there. They could have decided their needs were too great and not to send them. School is a completely different situation.

spikey

You’re spectacularly missing the point. Regardless of whether the child has SN or not and regardless of where they are when they smack, bite and push another child, can you not see why it might be upsetting when the parent of said child doesn’t offer any apology? Can you see how that’s rude and shows you are lacking basic manners?
Can you see how that smacks of a ‘I don’t give a shit about your kid’ attitude?

Her apologising wouldn’t of changed what happened to the OP’s poor DD but the right and decent thing to do would of been to apologise on behalf of the child and I can completely understand why OP is upset about that.

Anyway OP, main thing is your DD is now happy and safe. I just hope that little boy gets the help he needs and deserves.

spikey

You’re spectacularly missing the point. Regardless of whether the child has SN or not and regardless of where they are when they smack, bite and push another child, can you not see why it might be upsetting when the parent of said child doesn’t offer any apology? Can you see how that’s rude and shows you are lacking basic manners?
Can you see how that smacks of a ‘I don’t give a shit about your kid’ attitude?

Her apologising wouldn’t of changed what happened to the OP’s poor DD but the right and decent thing to do would of been to apologise on behalf of the child and I can completely understand why OP is upset about that.

Anyway OP, main thing is your DD is now happy and safe. I just hope that little boy gets the help he needs and deserves.

Sorry for the double post, shitty Internet

You’re spectacularly missing the point. Regardless of whether the child has SN or not and regardless of where they are when they smack, bite and push another child, can you not see why it might be upsetting when the parent of said child doesn’t offer any apology

I often find that when someone offers an apology to me it opens up the space for conversation. I might be inwardly thinking 'grumble, mumble, obtuse selfish git', but an "oh I'm sorry I didn't see you" offers space for me to say "oh no matter" or "I'm sorry, I was in a daze too".

In the OP's case it might lead to some constructive and mutually supportive dialogue.

This can only happen, though, if it is agreed that no child should be pushed and bitten as a regular thing in a space that is supposed to be safe for them (well at all really, but you know what I mean).

In my DS school, there is a child that likes to throw cups, there is a risk assement in place and staff are supposed to mange this by only having drinks/ cups in kitchen and child is given 1-2-1 at lunch.

If a staff member had left a cup somewherethey shouldn’t have a the child In question threw it and it hit my son, I would not expect an apology from the parent nor would I expect one, I would want the school to look at what happened and ensure that all staff were awear of the risks and I would want an apology from the school. I would feel sorry for the child that threw the cup that he was put in the situation where it was allowed to happen.

I would also feel very sorry for my son who had been hurt and would be again looking to the school for reassurance and an apology.

The parents probably told the school the child bites, the school then have a responsibility to ensure he is not given the opportunity, I relay don’t see why the parent should have to apologise for something she can’t control.

Strawberry people are not going to apologise in situations where they are not responsible if they believe they are being unfairly blamed or the person is looking down on them or their child, making derogatory comments, not accepting behaviour is due to disability or generally bitching about them.

zzz

I apologise if my use of the word ‘odd’ offended you, but I think a few of us felt what you were saying was odd, not you yourself. I don’t know you so can’t say if you’re odd but you don’t seem it :)

Your situation sounds different from OP’s. From what the OP has said, she has been with the other parent when her child has been hitting hers and nothing was said/done to stop it, no apology or any acknowledgment for her DD being hurt. The parents don’t seem to be helping the child in anyway and allow him to hurt other children.

I’m not saying the parents can necessarily do anything (although in this instance doesn’t sound as if they’re even trying) but the decent thing to do is apologise. It’s basic manners and such a simple, small thing to do that can calm a situation down and remove a lot of frustration and hurt.

I don’t want to get in long discussions about saying sorry it seems a bit pointless but I am surprised by the few parents on here who would not apologise to the other parent and think that’s ok. I would be mortified if my child’s actions caused another child to leave the school, SN or not, I would be apologising.

Strawberry people are not going to apologise in situations where they are not responsible if they believe they are being unfairly blamed or the person is looking down on them or their child, making derogatory comments, not accepting behaviour is due to disability or generally bitching about them

That’s fair enough but not what’s going on here at all

OP seems quite friendly with this lady, has been to her house, offered her advice, lent her the nanny etc. but it seems this mother has repeatedly ignored the fact her child is harming OP’s (right in front of her face on one instance), has ignored the fact her DD has left school because of the physical attacks she was facing and generally has made no effort at all to help the situation.

If someone I was friendly with did all the above and couldn’t even offer a measly apology or any acknowledgement for the hurt my child is going through, they wouldn’t be on my Christmas list either. I would, rightly so, be hurt and frustrated.

There’s a lot of projecting and exaggeration on this thread, OP has not ‘bitched’ about the family just been honest about the situation to people who ask, she has not ‘looked down’ on them but is concerned that this child’s parents are not helping him at all and that in turn has affected her own DD.

Also, how do you know this child is disabled?

The other thing that suggests that it’s more the school to me is that the period between the ages of 2-3 there was only a handful of incidents, probably similar to what you would expect any preschoolers to experience, if the mum did not offer an apology then, then yes I think it would be fair to expect one.

Although I’m not really sure what fobbed of means, it could mean she did not address it with the child there and then or just said I know he is a handful. So in her eyes she could of addressed it just not in the way the OP wanted.

The main issue seems to be when they were at school. The mum is not there to intervene, the OP stated it was pretty much the only school that would take the child and wanted an apology from the parents, in this instance I feel that it’s down to the school, an apology may be nice but is not necessary. I think the parents may be feeling awful as they refused to meet the OP when suggested or just plain fed up.

The OP was right to address it with the school and right to remove her daughter. I don’t seem to think there is a friendship there anymore and I imagine ( having lived in a compound as a child) that it is very hard if you feel like no-one wants your child around. The OP mentioned by the child being well known in the community for being aggressive. If the child is disabled or not really has very little bearing as it’s down to the school to manage behaviour that is known about whether SEN or no SEN.