To think the parents should talk to us

[Vanessatiger]

Our daughter had started pre-school this autumn. The neighbour boy started the same school and was placed in the same class as her. We were quite apprehensive that he got placed in the same class because he has on at least 4 occasions during the year from aged 2-3 hit, bit and pushed her. He’s quite known within the community to be rather aggressive.

In the end of October we pulled her out of school because he was taunting her almost daily and she got so sad when I picked her up, she would tell us that she got pushed and fell on her head, and she’d come back with bite marks on her shoulders and arms.
The head teacher would tell me she got bitten or hit but he never revealed who it was, it’s the school’s policy. But our daughter is very verbal so would tell us the name of who hurt her.

I spoke to the mother of the boy several times, she always just fobbed it off and then excused herself to leave. I asked the school to do something about it. They said he’s just a three year old being a three year old. I told the school he needs additional help as he has bitten numerous kids (i found out by speaking to the other parents). The school said he just need being watched by the head teacher. So I’ve seen the head teacher always playing with him in the school yard leaving the 19 other children with the assistant teacher. I complained to school about it as it’s unfair to the other kids.
I asked the parents to speak to us.
Parents refused.
School thinks it’s all fine.

This is a private school in a small community in a expatriate area in a developing country. The director was appointed due to no interest in the job, she’s a trained teacher who was a parent at the school previously. There’s no accountability and they don’t want to put extra resources due to cost issues.
We got fed up so pulled our daughter out.

AIBU to think the parents (who are our neighbours) owe us an apology. Her husband has work relations with my husband, and I’ve spoken to the mother several times. From what I’ve gathered she doesn’t think the boy needs extra help and she got offended I complained to the school about him.

No that's just retaliation.

I hope that your DD will find another, better school (although I wonder if this is possible given your circumstances.

The boy's behaviour was unacceptable, as was the school's response. In my book, the school should have had a meeting with the boy's parents and warned them that they'd need to remove him if the behaviour continued.

Unfortunately, SEN has come into this thread now and thus nothing the boy or his parents do will be unacceptable and the physical injuries your child has experienced, along with the trauma, will be minimised.

Maybe the boy has SEN and maybe he does not. In an ideal world the school should provide resources to keep all children safe and happy. The OP is not living in that world, unfortunately.

The parents don't 'need' to apologise, but their inability to interact in any way suggests they don't really see a problem with their boy's behaviour.

If indeed the child does have SEN then maybe they are better off going back home, wherever that is, to get the extra care and resources he obviously needs.

^^ This presumes that "back home" is somewhere with SEN support.

Yes, I was assuming we were talking about a community of first world expats living in a company compound of sorts. I was assuming the boy and his family were part of this. Maybe not?

Yetanotherspartacus
“The boy's behaviour was unacceptable, as was the school's response. In my book, the school should have had a meeting with the boy's parents and warned them that they'd need to remove him if the behaviour continued. ”

Not a fan of inclusion then? Alternatively the school could support the child further, and make sure that other children are kept safe.

He’s quite known within the community to be rather aggressive

You lost me here really.

Well, from what I’ve gathered from two friends who are psychologists, it seems the boy has more to it than just going through a phase
WTF? You can't be serious.

The parents owe you nothing. Especially whilst you go around gossiping and stirring up trouble with your own personal witch hunt.
The school owes a duty of care, for sure, but you didn't like the way they handled it.
I wouldn't talk to you either tbh.

suggesting that they should “go home” so as not to bother the nice normal expats is disgusting

This is not what was being suggested. The suggestion was that he should go elsewhere if his needs can't be met in that school.

A very usual reason for expats with young children to go home is if one of the children has SN. You just don't get the same support. What do you do if your child needs speech therapy and can only get it in a language in which they aren't fluent?

I think families with disabled children should have the same life opportunities as other families and suggesting that they should “go home” so as not to bother the nice normal expats is disgusting

No you are absolutely right. A better solution would be to magic in the kinds of resources and professionals that are needed. The OP has already made it clear that this is a school in difficult circumstances and with limited resources. Surely most parents with children with SEN would choose to leave if the utter harsh reality was that their child needed extra resources that simply were not possible in those circumstances?

Not a fan of inclusion then?hmm Alternatively the school could support the child further, and make sure that other children are kept safe

The little girl in question was not getting a fair go. She was being physically injured. Hearsay says that other children are too.

As said above, the school has limited resources. How will this be achieved? In reality, I mean.

Thank you Zoomaa. Nice to know that someone gets it!

I asked the director if he’s seen anyone for help as his behaviour is out of hand. She told me that “ not yet”. So I’ve pretty good sources the parents are not seeking help.

Wow. The lack of confidentiality here is shocking.

The school gave the child extra supervision but the op still didn't like it.

The school gave the child extra supervision but the op still didn't like it

The head played with the child 1:1 while the other (was it 19) children were under the sole care of a relatively untrained staff member.

How is that fair or safe or workable?

Well, from what I’ve gathered from two friends who are psychologists, it seems the boy has more to it than just going through a phase

your friends must be terrible psychologists, because gossiping about the behaviour of a child in that way and pretending to have superior insight is completely unprofessional.

And you shouldn't be asking anyone if he is getting professional help, or recommending it. You made a choice to live in a country with very different standards and are now surprised that you can't force your own on to everyone else. It doesn't work like that.

Anonymity cuts both ways. The school shouldn't have even told her who her child bit. What do you expect her to do, go round to every parent apologising just in case it was their child who got bitten this time? In the UK this sort of stuff should only go through school, never parent to parent, because the latter tends to go horribly pear shaped.

I've been parent of the biter and the bitee at nursery. It's way easier being the parent of a highly verbal bitee than a (non verbal in our case) biter IME. Of course the other children need to be kept safe and it sounds like you've been badly treated by the nursery, but I think you're misplacing your anger. Lack of an apology from one parent to another, when neither were there at the time, really isn't the problem here and it won't make a jot of difference to your daughter.

This is not what was being suggested. The suggestion was that he should go elsewhere if his needs can't be met in that school

Him and his parents and the headteacher seem fairly happy that his needs are being met fine. You don't know if he has any particular needs or not.
OP felt her childs needs were not being met, so she removed her. Which is as it should be.

You sound like a total PITA. You have effectively started a vendetta against a 3 year old who bites. You've complained to the school, you've complained to other parents, you're complaining here. Complain, complain, complain.... And you wonder why the mother of the little boy is ignoring you? You sound unhinged!

At least no-one could describe you as 'meek' though. You're going to make this little boy and his mother pay at whatever cost it seems. An apology?! Get a grip.

Pain. In. The. Arse.

"How is that fair or safe or workable?"

Her problem then is with the school not the parents. So why is she hounding the mother? The post was about the mother not talking to her and not apologising for having a child with( by the op's admittance) likely additional needs. I have no sympathy for someone who behaves like that.

Every child should be able to attend school without fear of others. If a student is deliberately hurting another child, EVERYTHING must be done by the school and the parents to ensure that it does not happen.
End of. No excuses.
If the child doing the hitting has additional needs then they need additional support to ensure that it does not happen, it may not be his fault, but the other children should not have to tolerate being physically hurt by him. Even if this means the school paying for this extra support. Leaving 1 teacher in charge of 19 young children with no TA, is an unacceptable adult/child ratio for this age group.

I don't understand why people are making excuses regarding that he 'is only three' - surely if your 1 or 2 year old was bashing someone on the head at playgroup/softplay you would still remove them from the situation and (kindly) tell them 'No' and to be gentle?

I teach 3 year olds (dance) and always make any student of mine say sorry if they deliberately hurt someone on purpose. I have given students time out at the front of the room for fighting (punching and hair pulling) at this age. And have taken a child who hit and refused to apologise to the other student out of my class to sit with their mum until they were ready to come back in and say sorry to the other child. I have however, noticed that the behaviour and development of the 5 year olds that I currently teach is more like the three year olds that I was teaching ten/fifteen years ago. Far too much mollycoddling of the snowflake generation.

OP I think you have done the right thing in removing your child from the school, I would just ignore the mother when you see her, forget the apology which will most likely never happen. Hope you find a better school for your daughter where she can be happy.

Him and his parents and the headteacher seem fairly happy that his needs are being met fine. You don't know if he has any particular needs or not. OP felt her childs needs were not being met, so she removed her. Which is as it should be

A little girl who is being bitten and pushed to the extent that she feels trauma at school "goes elsewhere" "as it should be" riiiiiiiiiiight.

Frankly, if the child is biting and pushing and generally hurting other children his needs are not being met and nor are those of the other children (although this does not seem to actually matter).

If an apology were to come from anywhere I would expect it from the school. They were both in loco parentis of your child and the child who was hitting yours. They failed to manage his behaviour either by providing appropriate provision or, if that wasn't possible, removing him from the school. And they failed to keep your child safe.
An apology from the school is unlikely though. I think you need to put it behind you and focus on finding a better school for your dd.

zzzzzz I'm laughing to myself here. You obviously have not experienced this type of expat school.

The UK has IEPs and one to ones and Ofsted and standards and therapeutic help and Every Child Matters and multi agency meetings. (apols if out of date)

Unheard of in all most expat schools.

It's not for you to say though Spartacus, is it? Not for any of us.