To think the parents should talk to us

[Vanessatiger]

Our daughter had started pre-school this autumn. The neighbour boy started the same school and was placed in the same class as her. We were quite apprehensive that he got placed in the same class because he has on at least 4 occasions during the year from aged 2-3 hit, bit and pushed her. He’s quite known within the community to be rather aggressive.

In the end of October we pulled her out of school because he was taunting her almost daily and she got so sad when I picked her up, she would tell us that she got pushed and fell on her head, and she’d come back with bite marks on her shoulders and arms.
The head teacher would tell me she got bitten or hit but he never revealed who it was, it’s the school’s policy. But our daughter is very verbal so would tell us the name of who hurt her.

I spoke to the mother of the boy several times, she always just fobbed it off and then excused herself to leave. I asked the school to do something about it. They said he’s just a three year old being a three year old. I told the school he needs additional help as he has bitten numerous kids (i found out by speaking to the other parents). The school said he just need being watched by the head teacher. So I’ve seen the head teacher always playing with him in the school yard leaving the 19 other children with the assistant teacher. I complained to school about it as it’s unfair to the other kids.
I asked the parents to speak to us.
Parents refused.
School thinks it’s all fine.

This is a private school in a small community in a expatriate area in a developing country. The director was appointed due to no interest in the job, she’s a trained teacher who was a parent at the school previously. There’s no accountability and they don’t want to put extra resources due to cost issues.
We got fed up so pulled our daughter out.

AIBU to think the parents (who are our neighbours) owe us an apology. Her husband has work relations with my husband, and I’ve spoken to the mother several times. From what I’ve gathered she doesn’t think the boy needs extra help and she got offended I complained to the school about him.

pitty there is so much gossip going round

Because you dint think that it doesn’t happen in the uk??
Of course it does. Like in any small community where everyone knows everyone.
I see it my little town where everyone knows who is a bully, who is having marriage trouble. Add FB to that and you even have commentary as things are unfolding.

Unfortunately, this can be common anywhere. Schools often cannot easily do anything. Some parents, unfortunately, are not bothered or are happy to let the school deal with it (when it happens at the school) but will give the school a hard time if they are not happy with how the school chooses to deal with it.

To be honest, the issue is that "it's your problem" coupled with the fact that other parties (the school, the other parent) find it easier (for them) not to take responsibility and action to address this.

In such cases, it may be that the only way forward (if you encounter this again) is to escalate matters and make it "their problem too". Try, for example, marching into the school (when headmaster and other parent are both present) and angrily telling the culprit concerned to stop molesting dd or else he'll face your wrath. Now, the school and the other parent have problems too and may be more amenable to taking the original issue seriously and actually doing something about it.

Yep, this involves putting the "fear of God" into a small child (so not a first resort). But when the more civilised route is not working (because other parties are ducking their responsibilities) its a better way forward than you and dd always having to accommodate those that "play the system".

Frankly, demonstrating to the culprit that there are civilised boundaries to acceptable behaviour and potential consequences to breaching them is also no bad thing (since his parents clearly have not addressed that) for the culprit's education, his future well-being and the well-being of other children.

I totally get hat the OP wants.
She doesn’t want apologies as such but an acknowledgement. An acknowledgement that her dd has been hurt and hurt byntyat child. Repeatedly . Acknowledgement from the parents and the school.
Because it impacts both her dd and school but also herself (because of the very small community).

And he didn’t get any of that.

Fwiw I’m alaways amazed that on MN parents of children with SN are always portrayed as great people who go out of their ways to cope with a hard situation.
The reality is that there are as many twats as parents from children with SN than parents with NT children.
You also have parents who refuse to see the reality in front of them - just like parents of NT children who misbehave but think they are little darlings who can never do anything wrong.

It seems that the parent if the child in question is one of them. Probably not helped by the school not telling her straight that there is indeed an issue with her child.

Sensimilla and DD . All the best to your DD.

"Try, for example, marching into the school (when headmaster and other parent are both present) and angrily telling the culprit concerned to stop molesting dd or else he'll face your wrath."

If you that at my son's school you would get yourself banned from the school site. Not good advice.

Anything that happens in the school is the school's responsibility. You were right to pull your daughter out because at £6,000 a year the school should be able to employ extra staff to deal with more challenging children so children like yours don't get hurt.

Regarding the parents of the boy, they are probably going through hell and are feeling defensive. Maybe she should apologise as you know her from outside school but she really can't control her son's behaviour when she is not there. I am pretty sure the school is letting her know and the parents are probably looking for extra help but this is not something that you will be aware of. It's not as simple as just disciplining a child if he has special needs, he needs professional intervention which can take time.

For clarification, I haven’t spoken about the mother and boy since I’ve removed my child, so it’s odd someone says I run around gossiping. All what’s been said to school and the mother happened whilst my child was still at the school.

I’m just a bit uncomfortable with the fact the mother turns the other way when she sees us.

Also the school has two classes only and each class has two teachers (head and assistant), the different classes play outside at different hours.

And yes I want acknowledgement I was put under so much stress because of the boy but the mother whom is a neighbour kept absolutely quiet. Not on.

The mother will be probably really struggling. Just imagine if the biting 3 year old was your child and you just couldn't stop them. The school weren't helping. You would really worry for your child's future, if you were her. At least you have been able to remove your daughter from this situation. There are no easy answers. However this child is just 3, nobody wants their child 'written off' at 3. It'd be all I could do not to burst into tears when seeing you, tbh.

Since you are back OP how is your little girl and is there another schools she can go to?

If someone removed their child because they didn’t want them mixing with yours would you really want to chat with them in the street or anywhere else

If your child bit and pushed another child to the point where they experienced trauma and withdrew from school would you not want to acknowledge it?

But the point os, it should never get that far zzz.

It could jave been prevented by effective teachers and effective parents. People need to tale responsibility. And heres a whole thread removing that responsibility

Vanessatiger
And yes I want acknowledgement I was put under so much stress because of the boy but the mother whom is a neighbour kept absolutely quiet. Not on.

Its clearly not going to happen.

What can the parents of a very young child with likely additional needs do about the child's behaviour when the child is not with them?

It could jave been prevented by effective teachers and effective parents. People need to tale responsibility. And heres a whole thread removing that responsibility

You obviously have no experience of just how complex additional needs can be. People can only 'take responsibility' within their ability to respond. Sometimes solutions are not so straightforward. Sensory overload, for example can cause children react with a 'flight or fight' response which can be very difficult to manage in a busy and noisy environment. It takes time and much effort to get diagnoses. If a child is just three, the process will only be just beginning,

Do you think it is the correct course of action to blame (potential) disability on bad parenting and teaching? Maybe you could devote yourself to 'sorting' out effective management of additional needs in schools across our country, if you know all the answers?

We had to go to a local private school, standard is ok but the kids come with sweets and soda, and that’s accepted. Whereas in the expat school sweets were frowned upon. We have little choice here.

My girl is doing ok but she did get traumatised by the whole experience. I burst into tears just thinking about how terrified she must have been going to school.

Well when my girl was still in school I did ask around for advice and I asked my psychologist friends who live far away if this type of behaviour is “normal “ and whether this boy should get help. Because I wanted to have more back up before I talk to the school about his additional needs.
One teacher costs about $US500-1000 per month, unless they are expats which they aren’t in that school. So I thought the school could afford to hire another one to help the boy out.
So if the boy needs help, why is it so bad I ask for it?
The other parents at that school are my friends so if they ask “ how’s X doing”, I’d tell them that she’s not doing so well because of x and y, then they’d also tell me their son/daughter got bitten 2-3 times, but it seems my daughter was more subjected to it, perhaps because we’re neighbours and known each other for a while. Perhaps the boy felt since he knows my daughter from before he could hit and bite and push more? I spoke to the mother about it but she always made excuses. When he pushes my daughter in front of us all, the mother would either not say anything while I tell the boy to stop or she’d say “ oh i know you’re frustrated but if you want to push someone you can push mama ok”...

I know for a fact they aren’t seeking any help for the boy. The father has said to us “he bites because he can’t control his emotions, it could be happiness ”.. a bit odd as he also exhibits other type of violence.
I know the parents are very lenient with him. He’s been to our house and he’s broken things in our house (that’s before he started school). Already then my husband and I thought he was a bit off and the parents seemed quite soft about it.

magpie, my firzt child has SEN

You need to let this go, OP. Move on. For yourself and your daughter. It is just not your place to dictate and you have no authority regarding parenting this boy. If you need to report stuff, report it. Beyond that, what are you going to do? Yes, the parents might be experiencing denial. Additional needs can be scary and impact on a child's whole future. This can be hard for people to cope with. You being angry with them will not change this.

So why are you being so judgemental in your posts, Sensilmilla? Where is the empathy?