To think gender alters the perception of what is said on MN?

[1DAD2KIDS]

I use a username that clearly identifies my gender (and is also my biological sex). Often I feel that if people assumed I was a woman their response would be different. Or if you swapped the genders around some people's responses would be completely different?

Yes, here and literally everywhere else IRL and online.

Yes, it does. And rightly so because men and women are not equal in wider society. While women earn less, are raped more, suffer DV more, and carry the burden of childcare and socially reproductive work, expect this to continue.

There's a crazy amount of bias and projection here, and I think what people don't consider is that that means a lot of women are given really shitty, pandering advice.

The one thing that really gets my back up is the way so many posters will really push for female OP's to try and retain primary custody of their children, even when it's blindingly obvious that that's not at all in their children's best interests. Even when the OP has clearly realised themselves that they aren't capable and are just looking for people to say it's ok, there'll still be dozens of posters saying OP shouldn't give up primary custody, purely because she's a woman. If a father posted that he was an non-functioning alcoholic who'd stopped taking his antidepressants and wasn't coping, absolutely no one would advise against sending the kids to their mums for a while. But have it be a mother, and suddenly what's best for the children goes right out the window.

I've seen mothers get it in the neck for their parenting, too. Lots of them. Some posts are received different,y from others- I don't think it's about the sex of the poster it's about the way they post. People who don't seem to accept the reality of their situation and people who are unreasonable get told pretty bluntly. Some of them will be men.

I suppose to clarify the way I see things there are items for me:

I think sex is relevant often. We live in a much divided world and the male experience (all be it different for everyone) is on the whole different to the female one. That's why I have no problem on here identifying myself as male. In some (not all) conversations my sex does have relevance in the same way that my race, culture or social class may have relevance in some other conversations.

Like many have pointed out it is a debate and differing opinions and the right to have those opinions should be a given. I have no objection with this and perfectly agree. No different to any other debate. It is through many of these conversations my opinions have been challenged and my position altered. This is the value of debate. I would hate this place to become an echo chamber.

I think some people have really read into my user name too much and applied way too much significance (although people who live in glass houses, I over analyse things too sometimes). I didn’t fuck about when prompted to put a user name on. I just simply (as its a parenting site) put the first thing that popped in my head. Granted I was totally lacking imagination that night. Its in capitals because simply the caps lock was on at the time. It is now my identity so why should I change it. Also to change my user name to just doesn’t feel right for me, sort of deceitful. Although I perfectly understand the option for name change on MN.

Personally I don’t support the idea that because women are subject to more oppression then we shouldn’t give a shit when a man is on the receiving end. Anyone with a set of eyes can see that this world can be unfair to men and women but it is women whole are more hard done by. I just don’t see how your position in the game of oppression top trumps means that its ok not to give a shit about others? Oh because its a male voice I don’t give a shit attitude. After all in the game of oppression top trumps there are many other factors such as wealth and race that can affect you significantly regardless of birth sex. Of course you can have these attitudes if you want, that’s up to you but personally I don’t agree.

As other have put there is loads of hypocrisy on the internet and out in the world this is true as anyone can see. But I don’t see how that can be used as a defense of hierocracy? Surely hierocracy should be challenged, not accepted and supported because its in abundance in society or because men do it all the time?

I think the main issue is the cases where the perception is clearly altered by the knowledge of the sex of a person. Where people’s responses are influenced on the sex of the person not the content or detail of what is said. I do believe for whatever reason there are a small number of those who generally dislike men or see men as the enemy. I think many people who have been following this conversation would have picked up on this tone from some. Yet again that is their choice to.

Thanks for that but you don't get to tell me or others how we should feel. I have 2 sons a father etc etc, so strangely enough I do care about men. I don't care about a man feeling oppressed on MN because of his user name.

birdsdestiny thanks but neither did I tell you how to feel. That is totally up to you how to feel or not feel, I support you in that. This purely my commentary on my perception of the nature and tone of some of the posts. Although your rationale could be taken similar to that old I have friends that are a different race to me, so I cant be racist argument.

Personally I don’t support the idea that because women are subject to more oppression then we shouldn’t give a shit when a man is on the receiving end. Anyone with a set of eyes can see that this world can be unfair to men and women but it is women whole are more hard done by. I just don’t see how your position in the game of oppression top trumps means that its ok not to give a shit about others? Oh because its a male voice I don’t give a shit attitude. After all in the game of oppression top trumps there are many other factors such as wealth and race that can affect you significantly regardless of birth sex. Of course you can have these attitudes if you want, that’s up to you but personally I don’t agree.

But you don’t have to agree! YOU have chosen this website, YOU have chosen to highlight you’re a man. Just because YOU’VE decided female oppression isn’t important to YOU doesn’t mean that everyone else has to agree with you.

If you don't wish to change your user name to something less shouty and obviously male that's up to you. But at least it means everyone can avoid should they wish I suppose.

Good luck.

Pumperthepumper Thanks for highlighting that paragraph. I think we read totally different things from it?

Where did I say you have to agree? I totally agree with you on the point that you don't have to agree. I have supported that no one has to agree throughout the whole text, not just that paragraph. Likewise I am therefore sure you respect my right to have a point on this even if you don't agree with me? Surely we are at least in agreement on that?

Where have I said that I don't care about the oppressive and uneven state of society with regards sex? I do care and I care about other factors such as class, race, sexuality, gender identity. I don't think to bring up the presence of reverse hypocrisy is saying I don't care about female oppression. To question the presence of it is not some kind of attack on the notion of female oppression. Neither is to say that just being female alone is the whole story when it comes to oppression. We are all in different places in the pecking order. We are all to a certain extent are advantage and disadvantaged by the ovarian lottery in an unfair society that needs challenging. Just by mealy being born in the western world makes you pretty high on a global pecking order.

Sparklingbrook Completely agree with you.

I’ve read your reply about four times and I still can’t understand what you’re saying, sorry. That other oppression exists too?

You started this thread - presumably you’d like to see it changed? That saying ‘I’m a man’ means the responses would be the same to a woman? That won’t happen - because of the reasons already pointed out to you on this thread, women are more likely to be the victims of violence and sexual violence, are more likely to be the main carer etc etc. Plus you’re on a predominately female site.

The advice to you has been to change your username. You don’t want to do that.

And I’m trying to think of a thread where it’s relevant to point out you’re a man, I can only think of men’s health, like if someone wanted information about the prostate for example. Happy to be pointed in the direction of others though.

Pumperthepumper well there are lots on conversations where a male perspective adds a different insight. The world is a different place for men than women as you have pointed out so a male perspective adds a different angle to many things. Especially when so much of the conversation on here is about the relations between men and women. In fact there are loads of conversations on here specifically asking for the male perspective.

Your right that on a prominently female site that hypocrisy is likely to happen. As I think we all agree on everyone has different opinions. But what is wrong with me opening up the existence of this as a topic for debate? Most agree the hypocrisy is there. The main difference of opinion is over how ok it existence is. I can fully understand that because of the many reasons you have mentioned some people may see the world through different lenses. Which is perfectly fine and understandable.

The advice to you has been to change your username. You don’t want to do that. Agreed. But its a perfectly valid suggestion that may have said. I have said why I don't want to. Don't really see where your going with that point, its just perfectly valid part of the conversation.

FreudianSlurp Really?

Pumperthepumper well there are lots on conversations where a male perspective adds a different insight. The world is a different place for men than women as you have pointed out so a male perspective adds a different angle to many things. Especially when so much of the conversation on here is about the relations between men and women.

Like what? What exact topic of conversation on mumsnet needs your male perspective?

And because I can’t copy and paste two sections from your comment in my reply, I’ll be back in a minute with my next point.

Your right that on a prominently female site that hypocrisy is likely to happen.

I’m guessing that it’s comments like this that make you unpopular here.

And the point about your username is: that’s the solution to your problem.

Like what? What exact topic of conversation on mumsnet needs your male perspective?

Male impotence?

I did suggest ‘men’s health’ in my earlier post.

. He's cool.

Pumperthepumper well apart from the obvious logic that their may be value in many conversations regarding men and the relations of between man and women just search for your self on the MN search bar for male perspective. There you'll find load of conversations where the male perspective is asked for or curiosity stated about the male perspective.

Your probably right it may not make me popular with everyone. Are you here to be popular?

Thank you for your solution. As you and others have put it is an option that could work. Genuinely I do value that input. What is problematic to me is the idea being complicit in these double standards too. Surely there is something wrong with changing my online persona for the purposes of slipping under the radar of a present sex based bias? It would be like me suggesting that you should go round disguised as a male. Maybe that could help you protect you from sex based bias , Like the female authors of old using Male alias to get published? Would that be right?

Lweji Like what? What exact topic of conversation on mumsnet needs your male perspective? classic

Yes. Many women do this online. Is that surprising to you?

OP Yanbu, However I expect I would get a similar reaction on a male dominated site.
There are advantages and disadvantages of being a man/woman in today’s society. One of these disadvantages is that if you’re posting on a site that is predominantly used by the opposite sex when there is a current climate of hostility, that your views are likely to be scrutinised a whole lot more. I don’t agree with it, until people start recognising their own privileges in society (men and women) can we move forward & attempt to make things equal.

There you'll find load of conversations where the male perspective is asked for or curiosity stated about the male perspective.

Is there one male perspective?

It's certainly the case that there isn't one female perspective, so I'd guess no.
Your opinion doesn't the male perspective make. Just your perspective.