About not splitting the bill?

[TattiusTeddius]

At work we are about to merge teams with a group of about 10 people who work for the same organisation but in a different building and do a very similar job to us. The team managers organised a Christmas night out tonight to get to know each other a bit better. They picked a place that wasn’t too expensive for a meal, and we put in pre-orders and paid £10 deposit per head.

I only ordered a main as I wasn’t crazy about any of the starters or desserts, and so did a few colleagues from my team. Mine was £10.50 so I was only supposed to owe 50p tonight plus whatever drinks I’d buy.

It was established at the beginning that everyone would order and pay for their own drinks at the bar as some people were drinking and some weren’t. Some people (mostly from the other team) had pre-ordered 3 courses, which would be around the £35/£40 Mark in total.

We all had a lovely night and made the effort to mix with each other, everyone seems to get along well. However When the bill came, one (of the better paid) members of the other team took charge and calculated that because the food bill was £216 we owed £13.50 each.

I was , as I should have only owed 50p, I was going to put £3 in to cover that and a tip. 2 of my younger colleagues, who are on less money than me, looked a bit annoyed as well. One is on minimum wage and the other has just had a baby so I know that they could do with the money. One of them was technically owed 50p as her main was only £9.50 and she ordered nothing else.

Anyway I spoke up and said that I think it’s only fair for me and the 2 colleagues to put in what we owe as we only had one course each. The ‘organiser’ from the other team argued the toss, saying that she thought we were splitting the bill evenly and that we should have made it clear at the start of the meal if we only wanted to pay for our own. I said I didn’t think I should have to point that out when there’s a £25 difference in what some people are ordering (she had 3 courses BTW). I stood my ground and we and a couple of others paid for our own, everyone else split between them (it went up to £18 each when split). The 2 younger colleagues thanked me quietly afterwards btw!

The manager from the other team has text my manager after the meal saying that it’s ‘unspirited and unsharing’ to insist on paying for our own meals and that’s not how they do it in their team. She made a joke about us being skinflints, but I do think it was just a joke. She basically doesn’t think it bodes well if we have an ‘every man for themself attitude’. My manager is on our side, she wanted me to know about the messages to give me a heads up in case they bring it up with me but she’s going to reply tomorrow fighting our corner.

WIBU or do they have a point? It’s gonna be awful when we merge isn’t it?

The 3 courses thing is interesting. In my early 20's I could have scarfed that down no problem. Now I struggle with more than a starter and a main or two starters unless it's a very long drawn out meal or they are tiny portions (so why am I so much fatter now than I was then?! hmm)

Oh yes. this is my life story. In my 20s I ate everything and sat happily around 8 and half stone. Now, I eat a fraction of what I used to and weigh the wrong side of 11..... Enjoy food while it has no effect on you is my advice

To the Why isn't the company paying? crowd... believe me, we have teams in all sorts of jobs where we've always all had to pay if we go out.

tbf Tattius, you knew what you meant, the majority of us read it as a £3 difference before you clarified.

I agree with rebecca that I was a greedy pig in my 20s, I could eat 5 takeaways a week and not put on a pound. Now, some bit older and 2 children later, I bloat just looking at a bloody snickers

This is why set menus are good. It is an awkward situation.

You've got to go into these things expecting to at least pay for what you have had. They are wrong to say you should have said before because it sounds as if that would affected people's ordering decisions which is not in the spirit of bill splitting.

I have to admit I silently judge people who don't split bills. I hate quibbling over a few quid, everyone getting their calculators out and then the bill is short because some tight fucker hasn't put their full share in.

But if people don't want to split, they don't have to and they are definitely in the wrong to confront over it.

I hate these events. Is it business or is it personal? If it is business, work should be paying. If it is personal, what is a tenner between friends? Its neither. If I'm paying I want to want to choose who I go with and not have piss takers there ordering the most expensive things.

I've re-Read my OP and I actually think it's very clear it was £13 they tried to overcharge, I've said it several times

Don't get me wrong OP, I am on your side and I definitely think YANBU, however I didn't immediately get it from your first post. I actually got a pad of paper and a pen and worked it out before I made my post at 23:47 yesterday. So TBF it wasn't very clear but I think by now enough people have explained that there is no excuse for posters saying "It was only £3"

I hate this, there's been many times I've been trapped into this, ordering the cheapest in the menu as I didn't have much money, only to be told let's just split the bill

£3 isn't much but it's the principle and for the manager to comment on that is ridiculous

Arghhhh I always had this. Always split the bill (with my family) when I was pregnant and my husband wasn't drinking. About 5 times this happened. Then the one and only time when I had a few to drink but my sister wasn't drinking for the first time ever, it was expected we paid for our own and not split.
Bizarre behaviour.

Sounds like the other manager is about of a dick and can she not realise that expecting people to subsidise her 3 course meal is unspirited and mean

YANBU.

I generally thinking splitting is fine but to pay over double what your meal cost is unacceptable IMO.

And as others have said, it’s not just £3 over, it’s £13. The OP had already paid £10z

Can I just summarise for those who have misunderstood and think the OP is quibbling over three pounds;

The OP in total was asked to pay £23.50. Her meal was £10.50. As she had put a down payment on the meal of £10.00 her actual bill ought to have been 50 pence, plus whatever she put in a tip. The CF in the other team were expecting her to be out of pocket a further £13.50 in total so they and their meals could be subsidised significantly.

As it was, even though the OP stood up for herself and other junior members of the team who had eaten very little, the CFs on the other team still got a significantly subsidised meal, and yet complained about it... even into the following day.

I think you were right , and even 'righter' given the younger and more hard up members of the team. I really hate this sort of thing and have now given up on the office socialising because I don't eat a lot, so have just the main course, and rarely a dessert, usually just a coffee. I don't drink either because I have to drive, so my meal usually comes to about £12 - £15 . I really really don't mind chipping in a bit extra but on the last occasion I was horrified at the amount I was expected to pay because of colleagues who had ordered several cocktails apiece (at a minimum of £12 each!!) and had got through three courses and several bottles of wine, plus brandy or similar with their coffee. My share came to £42, and before I could say anything the boss said that four of us who hadn't got through anything like that amount of food and drink should pay £17 a head, the rest could divvy it up between them. Needless to say they didn't like another £120 plus to cough up between them and it caused some bad feeling. Two of them at least I think were just deliberately going mad with the drinks as they thought they would be heavily subsidised; rather takes the shine out of it all and I'm not going again.

It's basic etiquette that if you consume more than others when you come to split the bill you offer to put in more. You should in absolutely no way have to subsidise the gluttons in your group.

Your manager should be standing up for you against this other manager. If she isn't then I'd question if these are the people you really want to work with!

I do hate how we women worry about how we'll be viewed by others. Why not own how you feel and stand your ground without questioning your decision. You did what was right for you, maintained your integrity and stood up for junior members of staff - bravo you!

Absolutely, sunshine. We as women are judged by other women, if anybody and the sneering that is made to pay-your-own-wayers is disgraceful.

If some of the bill-splitters weren't so reluctant to pay for what they eat and drink there wouldn't be an issue. But they don't, they want to be subsidised and that's pure gluttony/theft since they happily call the pay-your-own-wayers skinflints or similar.

Well done indeed, OP.

I agree with you OP...am always feeling robbed when I have been eating very little and not drinking due to driving home - often with pissed colleagues, then I am asked to subsidise their excesses.Makes me mad so I don't play along any more. Worst was at a pre-wedding do when the very rich father ordered lots of very expensive wine and the most ridiculously priced dishes , then wanted us all to split the bill ; I had eaten about £15 pounds worth and was facing an £80 share...bloody cheek. I walked out !!!

I hate equal bill splitting - why should I pay more to subsidise someone else's meal? And why should someone else subsidise my cocktails? Absolutely not. Calculators out every time, no shame.

YANBU me and a friend were in this situation before wtb a takeaway, she didn't have a lot of money so ordered something cheap and I didn't have anything then we were told we BOTH owed money for the food, we refused saying that she didn't have enough money to pay that and I am not paying for their food when I did even eat anything. Everyone then ignored us for the rest of the night. It is ok when money is no object but if you don't have any it isn't fair to pay for someone else's meal.

I generally think splitting the bill is the done thing - and if you don’t intend to I’d say so at the start of the meal, or when someone starts ordering 1 steak and 2 lobsters...
But in the circs you’ve described it doesn’t sound like you were being at all unreasonable. The managers will know what some of the lower paid staff are on and should feel ashamed for asking the lower paid staff to pay towards their more expensive meals. The company should pay anyway surely? The attitude of the management over this could put the less well off staff off attending social work events and that would be a real shame for the whole team!

This line that people trot out about how it is fine to only pay for what you had but you should say you are doing so in advance doesn't make sense. Why would anyone say at the start of the meal 'I'm not paying for some of your meal. I'm only paying for mine'. That would imply that the other person was going to try and get you to pay for some of their meal and would therefore be a very rude thing to say. I'm all for splitting bills but I would never try and split a bill if I had spent more than the other person / people. Why should someone have to announce they aren't paying for 3 courses when they only had 1. Is it because the people having 3 courses then have a chance to order less as they know they'll actually have to pay for what they order? Surely, they always intended to.

I have been to more staff dinners and functions than I care to remember. There is no way I ever wanted to subsidise anyone I worked with. Even splitting bills with friends is different.

Changing you're right! In fact, those who EXPECT others to pay for their food shuld say "I want everyone to know that I expect subsidisation for my meal...ok?"

That's more reasonable!

This line that people trot out about how it is fine to only pay for what you had but you should say you are doing so in advance doesn't make sense.

It does. It clearly sets the scene for everyone on what to expect. I don't expect anyone to subsidise my meal but if some guests are greedy, as pp have experienced or hate the faff at the end of a meal on bill splitting, it is best to let them know in advance so they don't order too much and get angry and create bad feeling or annoyed at the inevitable wait for the bill settling.

As a pp said, I have also been stung by people who want to pay their own way. It was a party and the birthday girl had to put in a great deal of money as lots of people decided not to own up to what they had ordered. That is just as bad as over ordering and expecting others to pay for you.

Olivia but that's not people who are paying their own way - that's a thief.

You (general) should be prepared and able to pay AT LEAST for what you have ordered. That's the long and short of it.

People who want to pay for what they've had can generally calculate the totals pretty well. It's the 'let's split it' that seem to have trouble with this.

Yeah I don't get why it should be said at the start either to be honest. Why? Would people order differently if they knew that they would have to actually pay for what they ordered rather than spreading the cost among everyone else?

YY to making a fuss. My first proper paying job we went out for lunch for birthdays, the first one was the day before I’d been paid and it was expected to split the bill. I was on £10k a year less than any of them. My line manager paid my share and I will not only be forever grateful but always check it’s fair to split the bill equally!

On Friday, I was out with a group of girlfriends having a meal and everyone had roughly the same, this is ideal for doing an even split, or so I thought. One friend wanted to work it out individually, I went along with that as I'm not quibbling over £2.50!
No way I would pay extra £13, especially work colleagues that I barely know.

Would people order differently if they knew that they would have to actually pay for what they ordered rather than spreading the cost among everyone else?

No, but they might eg go for a starter or a chateaubriand if they know they won't be stiffing anyone else by doing so, so the announcement of split bills would cause them to choose something more average.