About not splitting the bill?

[TattiusTeddius]

At work we are about to merge teams with a group of about 10 people who work for the same organisation but in a different building and do a very similar job to us. The team managers organised a Christmas night out tonight to get to know each other a bit better. They picked a place that wasn’t too expensive for a meal, and we put in pre-orders and paid £10 deposit per head.

I only ordered a main as I wasn’t crazy about any of the starters or desserts, and so did a few colleagues from my team. Mine was £10.50 so I was only supposed to owe 50p tonight plus whatever drinks I’d buy.

It was established at the beginning that everyone would order and pay for their own drinks at the bar as some people were drinking and some weren’t. Some people (mostly from the other team) had pre-ordered 3 courses, which would be around the £35/£40 Mark in total.

We all had a lovely night and made the effort to mix with each other, everyone seems to get along well. However When the bill came, one (of the better paid) members of the other team took charge and calculated that because the food bill was £216 we owed £13.50 each.

I was , as I should have only owed 50p, I was going to put £3 in to cover that and a tip. 2 of my younger colleagues, who are on less money than me, looked a bit annoyed as well. One is on minimum wage and the other has just had a baby so I know that they could do with the money. One of them was technically owed 50p as her main was only £9.50 and she ordered nothing else.

Anyway I spoke up and said that I think it’s only fair for me and the 2 colleagues to put in what we owe as we only had one course each. The ‘organiser’ from the other team argued the toss, saying that she thought we were splitting the bill evenly and that we should have made it clear at the start of the meal if we only wanted to pay for our own. I said I didn’t think I should have to point that out when there’s a £25 difference in what some people are ordering (she had 3 courses BTW). I stood my ground and we and a couple of others paid for our own, everyone else split between them (it went up to £18 each when split). The 2 younger colleagues thanked me quietly afterwards btw!

The manager from the other team has text my manager after the meal saying that it’s ‘unspirited and unsharing’ to insist on paying for our own meals and that’s not how they do it in their team. She made a joke about us being skinflints, but I do think it was just a joke. She basically doesn’t think it bodes well if we have an ‘every man for themself attitude’. My manager is on our side, she wanted me to know about the messages to give me a heads up in case they bring it up with me but she’s going to reply tomorrow fighting our corner.

WIBU or do they have a point? It’s gonna be awful when we merge isn’t it?

Manager replied this morning saying basically what a load of tosh, she won't have her team subsidising anyone and [if] other manager has a problem she's happy to meet to discuss further.

That's a great response and excellent management!

I like the sound of your manager, OP!

@iamagreyhoundhearmeroar

Do you have food issues Ping?

Bore off.

Don't project your insecurities onto me.

I'd put the blame squarely with the organisers - they collected an equal deposit from everyone and took a range of differently priced orders - what did they think would happen when the bill came??

They should have collected exact amounts in advance or been ready with their information and say "you ordered this and owe x", "you had 1 course owe y" etc.

It seems that instead they stood back and let this debate happen so people were split into 'I want split equally" and "I'm paying for what I had" - two teams meant to be getting to know each other.

It's hardly complicated to think "how do we make this fair so these relative strangers don't have to worry about the bill on the night and can focus on socialising"... the organisers did not think this through at all.

Excellent. Would probably have been even better if she'd said this at the table?

So basically, the other team expected someone with a £10 meal to pay £23 - which would mean you paid 230% of the cost of your meal.

Meanwhile, they're NOT the skinflints for trying to only pay for 60% of their actual costs? Haha logic is not their strong point, is it?

But that's the point, surely. If it's a one off - fine, enjoy it, all 3,000 calories of it if that's what you want. You won't eat much for the rest of the day anyway. But who wants to go for a special meal and sniff that they can't have more than 600 calories?!

On the other hand if you're doing it regularly, you simply can't eat like that, esp after a certain age - plus let's be honest, you don't enjoy it as much if it's just an every day event and then it really is a waste of calories!

Also, I'd only be happy sharing the cost if I knew I was paying roughly what I owed anyway - so say £35 if I order a £37 meal, plus I'd bung in extra for tip. If at any point I realised I was paying over a tenner less I'd realise that meant someone else was being screwed over to pay for my food.

To be fair this sounds like poor management rather than skinflints to me.

Why didn't the company pay anyway??!

Also re 'gluttony' is think it was fair if you ate out every night and had 3 courses but it's only occasional. And if I'm eating out I won't usually have lunch so I can make room.

And what's wrong with Prezzo

the only tiume we split the bill with other sis if eveyone has spent a similar amount.

Eg if the bill came to £200
A had £51
B had £50
C had £52
D had £47

We'd all pay £50 each and move on.

You have no idea about where I eat! grin Don't be so silly

Of course I do. You said you find portions where you eat to be huge. So I know you go to places that serve huge portions.

"The manager from the other team has text my manager after the meal saying that it’s ‘unspirited and unsharing’ to insist on paying for our own meals and that’s not how they do it in their team. She made a joke about us being skinflints, but I do think it was just a joke. She basically doesn’t think it bodes well if we have an ‘every man for themself attitude’."

Were I your manager, I'd be flinging it back at her. Pointing out that how they do it in their team seems to be to share the costs, but not the benefits; and that your team is more egalitarian. That expecting to get back more than you put in does not make for a productive team, and can create ill-will between givers and takers. And that expecting lowly-paid juniors to subsidise well-paid seniors actually does demonstrate an 'every man for themselves' attitude far more than my team expecting not to be charged for something they haven't had.

I may be being cynical, but if these two teams were individual people, I'd think the other team was testing your team's boundaries, looking for weaknesses to exploit to their own advantage - because yes, of course redundancies are coming.

WTF is a 'blue sky team'?

And rereading, Clearoutre makes the very good point of the organisers messing this up. I'd forgotten about the fact that the meals were pre-ordered, so the cost for each person was known well in advance. Everyone paid the £10 deposit, so how much each person owed on top would have been known - and how large the disparity would have been, from 50p for the OP to £27 for the three-course-eaters. On that basis, how could splitting the bill EVER have been regarded as a fair way to proceed?

Why was the balance not collected in advance so that the organisers would deal with the bill on the night? Why wait for the bill to come and the disagreement to arise? I am smelling a rat.Or gross incompetence.

WTF is a 'blue sky team'?

Presumably a team who engage in talking shite "blue sky" thinking.

YANBU.
But what has shocked me is that the other manager has raised this and is attempting to intervene - how on earth do they think this will benefit either team? Do they expect you to go say "oh yes you are quite right, here is the £13 I didn't need to pay". Moronic.

I’m glad you spoke up.

I had this when I was a Minimum wage job. I had the cheapest salad (£9) and water whilst a lot of people had 3 courses and loads of wine. They wanted me to pay £25 plus tip.

When you’re all paid the same then you split the bill.

The manager from the other team has text my manager after the meal saying that it’s ‘unspirited and unsharing’ to insist on paying for our own meals and that’s not how they do it in their team

What a load of cobblers.
When everyone is paid the same- managers and employees, that means that you can equally split the bill.

Calling someone you employ a skinflint would make me immediately seek a raise, and look for a job elsewhere. I think you need to bring this up with HR as it’s discriminatory and belittling.

On that basis, how could splitting the bill EVER have been regarded as a fair way to proceed? Why was the balance not collected in advance so that the organisers would deal with the bill on the night? Why wait for the bill to come and the disagreement to arise?

That's a really good point, yes, assuming that the whole thing was ordered in advance. Surely someone organising should have skimmed through and thought "hold on, some people have ordered two expensive courses* and some have ordered one cheap one - how's this going to work?"

• assuming pudding is ordered ad hoc when you decide you've enough space, rather than selected in advance

The manager from the other team has text my manager after the meal saying that it’s ‘unspirited and unsharing’ to insist on paying for our own meals and that’s not how they do it in their team

Well, this being the attitude, forewarned is forearmed and all that. This means that in future, OP has three choices:

1. Don't go.
2. Go and insist on paying for your own meal as per before.
3. Go and order up a nice dish of caviar the most expensive item on the menu. Remind manager of her team's caring-is-sharing policy when the bill arrives.

Why didn't the company pay anyway??!

Best laugh I've had today. It's 23 years since I last attended a works' Xmas meal that we didn't have to pay for ourselves.

YANBU well done for standing up for yourself and others

Seriously?

That's awful! If the company wants the teams to bond, they should pay. If it's too cheap to do that, just book a table in a pub and order a load of chips!!

Obviously it's different if it's a school or something as they won't have the budget but a private employer shouldn't be so bloody cheap if it wants the teams to mingle!

The manager from the other team has text my manager after the meal saying that it’s ‘unspirited and unsharing’ to insist on paying for our own meals and that’s not how they do it in their team

Well, it’s not the done thing in your team to exploit others which sounds far more professional!