To show the headteacher this...

[nevertoobigforharibo]

Some of the parents at my child’s school set up a Facebook page for parents of year 6 children to discuss homework/trips/reminders etc. The page is really useful.

Teachers are aware of the page (most year groups have one) and have asked on a recent newsletter that any issues parents may have with regards to class teachers, bullying etc are not discussed and are addressed with the class teacher instead. We all follow these rules.

Today one of the SMSA’s (dinner lady/lunchtime supervisor) at the school posted the following... (I have no idea why she is in the group actually as she doesn’t have a child at the school so she has since been removed from the page)

Post edited by MNHQ so that is is no longer a verbatim account "Dinner lady posted about pupils throwing unwanted food on the floor and their attitude towards her and expecting her to tidy up".

I get the frustration and think the boys involved should be dealt with but I found this really inappropriate.

A couple of parents commented that they felt this was an inappropriate place to post this and the person should go to their manager/headteacher to discuss the incident as she was discussing children (our children!) that she works with. She then replied with ‘I could name the children if I wanted to but haven’t as I want to remain professional.’

I have screenshot her post and comments and mentioned to DP that I’m going to bring it to the headteachers attention but he thinks I should keep out of it.

Any opinions?

What parents are raising their kids to say to people "you're just a dinner lady"?

My kids' primary school made all the kids write a letter to all the school support staff at Christmas (each year was given a different group: secretaries, caretaker, cleaners, dinner ladies) saying 'thank you for all you do for us'.

It might seem inappropriate but if you think about it, had they gone through school they might have been asked to name individual pupils. You can bet they talked about this as a group before posting anything and decided this was the least damaging way to make their feelings felt.

Non teaching staff get treated very badly and I have to say, when I was young (before electricity), if I came home and said 'I got told off', my parent's reaction would have been "what did you do?" Now it's "How dare they speak to you like that!"

As others have said, I think the reaction on seeing this should be "Wow, that must have been appalling!"

She will have done the same safeguarding training, policy signing and conduct agreeing as everybody else working in the school environment. The job title is not important. If it would be an inappropriate avenue of communication for the head teacher then it's an inappropriate avenue for everybody they employ too.

I have honestly never seen a dinner lady at an INSET meeting. Ever.

DollFace - neither have I, at a full inset. But every adult who works at the school I work in has to attend the safeguarding training, policy updates and first aid training - SLT, teaching staff, office staff, catering staff, cleaning staff, maintenance staff, grounds staff, peripatetic staff - everyone. We won't be compliant with govt regulations otherwise. If you have any potential contact with a child you have to have been given the relevant information in some format. If it's not done at the same time or place as teaching staff, it will (or should) have been done separately or at least by email.

We have to attend the inset after the summer break, but only for a couple of hours.

Glad you have taken on board the views of posters pointing out the poor woman must be at the end of her tether.

Manic I have to say I whole heartedly disagree with your post and that attitude from those responsible for children I believe has contributed to the way far too many children behave now.

The children referenced and their parents SHOULD be ashamed and embarrassed by their behaviour. Maybe then they won't behave like this!

The only reasons for seeing the HT over this is
a) if you are aware he is aware already
b) to support the lady and to say she must have been really upset/frustrated to post there

This x 10000 ^^^^

Christ, I wouldn't be a dinner lady for older dc for all the tea in China. They sound like a bunch of spoilt, entitled twats.

Hi OP, rather than delete this thread as potentially identifying we have made some some adjustments to it. That poor woman. We imagine there will be boxes of chocolates for the dinnerladies tomorrow from the parents of guilty parties.

@YetAnotherHelenMumsnet Thank you

The children referenced and their parents SHOULD be ashamed and embarrassed by their behaviour. Maybe then they won't behave like this!

They certainly should. I don't think anything I posted suggested they shouldn't? But it needs to be the right children and parents feeling that, rather than the whole lot being told and wondering if they are included. And the news needs to be given via official channels.

I actually think that the supportive attitude seen on this thread towards the catering staff member could also be a contributory factor in how some children are reported to treat some staff.

Language like 'poor love', 'lovely lady', 'not paid enough to have to be professional' 'deserves boxes of chocolates' 'dinner lady' sound to me slightly patronising/demeaning and as if her role is not sufficiently prestigious to expect her to follow the same codes of conduct as other staff in the school.
I can easily see how a child picking up on that attitude in adults could leave the compassion and decency out and absorb just the message that this adult is 'lesser' than another and can be treated differently.

Where I work, the children are taught that they are to respect and follow the instructions of the adults that work there - there's no need to draw distinctions between what type of staff those adults are. In fact, they should be more inclined to listen to catering staff than teaching staff in the dining room and more inclined to listen to grounds staff than teaching staff over keeping themselves safe in the woods. Our children are by no means angels and many can be horribly rude and disrespectful at times. But every adult has the authority to deal with it and/or knows who to go to within the workplace if they need support. They or someone else will report behaviour to parents, but they won't try to enlist help or support from parents in a 'me vs your child' battle. If, for some reason, this is not the case in the school where this particular member of staff works then that is a grievance to take up with the school, not the parents.

This would be a breach of contract in any school I’ve worked at. We weren’t allowed to discuss school or the children in social media in any way... but more to the point it’s ridiculously stupid on her part.

I wouldn’t want issues a parent might have with school being discussed on Facebook, so that rule should apply equally to everyone. There are appropriate channels and this is not it!

I’ve done that and thankfully she’s confirmed he’s not involved

Oh good pleased to hear it OP!

I used to work at a school with feral lunchtimes and break times, the Head was aware but blamed staff for lack of supervision rather than tackling the children. There'd be one supervisor outside trying to control the whole school field, with fights going on, and food being chucked around inside. It could be hair raising in the classroom, too; understaffed - in theory you could send for Head if you needed a child removed (hitting, spitting, hair pulling, throwing furniture) but either she'd refuse to come or she'd take child off for a little chat and treat. Chances are, either Head knows (and s/he should do, considering s/he's running the place) and is ineffectual, or is so fixated on what the school needs to appear like in terms of paperwork and spin that s/he's stuck in an office magicking up this mirage while all hell breaks loose on the other side of the door. Either way, my money would be on the lunch supervisor getting into ten times more trouble than the children over this.

The dinner lady is obviously at the end of her tether.....She has used a platform to let parents know what their little darlings are really up to and allowed parents to deal with their dc's abhorrent behaviour.

OP why do you feel the need to bring it to the HT attention? What are you hoping will be gained from it?

Don’t show it to the Head. The poor woman is clearly pretty upset. As others have said, you parents should be far more concerned about the unacceptable behaviour of some of your own children.

Bear in mind that in man areas it is extremely difficult to recruit midday supervisors. Who wants their day cut in half for a tenner or so? We had a letter home once to say kids would have to go home for dinner if no one stepped up.

Also they used to make the kids sweep the floor and wipe the tables of the lunch hall

Also I would tell the school to fuck off with telling me what I can and cannot post on Feb so long as not slanderous of course

I know this is pretty much sorted (and well done OP for not reporting it and DS making her a card is a lovely idea) but what if it had been a different message the dinner lady had written ...

“Had a fantastic day at work today. The year 6 boys noticed some food had been dropped on the floor and offered to clean it up without being asked.”

I’m sure that wouldn’t have been reported to the head for inappropriate use of Facebook! Much more likely to have comments from parents saying “yes my DC is an angel!”

I think it’s not so much the Facebook side of it that’s the problem, but the dinner lady pointing out that not all children are perfect!

I really hope she doesn’t get into trouble and her posting has a positive outcome. Maybe there’s more support at lunch from SLT, or they find the actual group do culprits and give them a week of supervision duty!

OP - let us know what happened to the poor woman!

used to work at a school with feral lunchtimes and break times, the Head was aware but blamed staff for lack of supervision rather than tackling the children

There's only so much they can do though. DD was severely bullied, in the playground and in class. The teachers chose to turn a blind eye, the lunchtime staff chose to turn a blind eye, mainly because neither wanted shit off the parents for daring to tell little johnny off. Literally there was a parent in there kicking off almost every day at one point or another because x had been punished for this or y punished for that.
I remember there being a massive argument between some parents at the school gates when DS was in nursery, and a dinner lady who happened to be dropping her DC off stopped on her way out to help diffuse it, both those arguing parents complained against the dinner lady for her 'unprofessional' behaviour that poor lady was in floods of tears when she went to the HTs office (thankfully the HT was sensible in that aspect and didnt take it any further).

Thankfully I got DCs out of that hellhole but fastforward a few years, there was an ongoing issue with some children in the class which resulted in the staff getting involved and phone calls home to sort it (I only know this because DD was involved - I.e one of those on the receiving end) After the phone calls home, the children came in and apologised to those they'd upset. Now that's an example of parents who give a damn.

they should be more inclined to listen to catering staff than teaching staff in the dining room and more inclined to listen to grounds staff than teaching staff over keeping themselves safe in the woods.

Completely wrong. They should be more inclined to listen to all staff at all times. The groundsman at our school is just as valuable as the teacher that has to walk around on the playground with one child. Their roles do not suddenly decrease in value according to what setting they happen to be in at the time.

I'm a dinner lady and while I would not of posted on fb page I would have had a word with my supervisor! Sorry but as the children get older they think it's ok to be rude to dinner ladies and year 6 seems to be the worst! At what point do you think it's ok to throw food,be rude and answer back? Or is it a case of some parents not believing there children.

OP, Have you decided whether you are going to
A) Bring her 'inappropriate' FB comments to the HT's attention first thing this morning.
or
B) Take this poor woman a box of chocolates to thank her for doing a thankless job in a school where pupil's behaviour is obviously not being managed effectively by the senior management team.

????

Oops...I'm a day late on this post....

Can't see any school wanting to sack a dinner lady with the season of wet playtimes coming up !

I hope she gets the support she needs from the HT to address the issue , so it doesn't occur again in the future .