To talk about the elephant in the room

[alittlebit]

Okay, so.
My friend is a lesbian and has a wife. She has been very broody the whole time I’ve know her but she and her wife chose to use their savings on their wedding and assumed they would still be able to afford to go down a complicated fertility plan. So they wanted the wife’s egg and a donor sperm and my friend to carry the baby, which obviously costs a lot more than just using a sperm donor.
Now they have realised they can’t afford to do this as it’ll take years of saving and my friend is 35 so the chances of it working decrease each year (so I’m told).
So they’re looking for a sperm donor and one of them drunkenly (and I’m hoping jokingly) asked DH for some of his. We laughed it off and didn’t mention this again.
Went out with friend a few months later and after a few drinks she keeps mentioning that we have the perfect family, we have everything ‘made’, that every time we have sex, we’re just ‘flushing away’ what she and her wife desperately need. She has asked if we are planning anymore children, wouldn’t DS like any sibling, if either of us have ever considered donating eggs/sperm, how long it took us to conceive, wouldn’t it be nicer if we were all closer etc. Just awkward.
I just change the subject.

Other than the one time (said drunkenly and I’m still hoping, jokingly), they have never seriously asked DH. So am I making wild assumptions here or does it sound like they’re building up to ask him to be their donor?
If so... what the hell do you say to that?

Next time its brought up just ask them "why do you keep asking", make them actually spell it out in black and white rather than dropping hints, then tell them in no uncertain terms that it a big fat "NO!" and not to bring it up again.

How about saying something like 'I don't know if I'm getting the wrong end of the stick, so sorry if I am and I don't mean to cause any offence, but I want to make sure we're on the same page. DH is not and will never be willing to donate sperm. You know I support you in your journey, but just want to stop any awkward conversations before they happen.'
No mixed messages, just done.

DH has asked me to speak with them and basically tell them that it’s never going to happen.
If the shoe was on the other foot I would want him to do the same for me so I’m going to have to.
Thank you for some of the suggestions on here. I’m going to have a think about how to say it.
I think, as some of you have said, just be really honest. He does not want children with anyone other than me. He wants all his children to be in his own family. He does not want one of his children growing up without him. One day we want to try again for a second child, and we want to go through that journey together as a family. There is no more conversation to be had and they need to respect his decision and our marriage by not bringing it up with me again or try to get me to persuade him.

Easier to say all this to you lot than say it to them

I don't envy you the job, but you're right.. ..you have to do it. It's their fault really for pushing the issue. I doubt they'd donate eggs for a male couple that they didn't like and had no relationship with, and I don't think they'd appreciate being told they were "flushing away" an egg every month.

NellWilsonsWhiteHair

But the OP hasn't made clear that the women would do this through HFEA, but she has made clear that they want to do this cheap as they have very little money.

But it is all irrelevant as the OP's DH is saying no.

alittlebit sorry I wasn't clear (but just so that anyone that does want to donate knows, it is altruistic donation like blood or organs) it's totally anonymous - so you give yours and they are taken and donated anonymously and the friends receive different, entirely anonymous sperm.

But of course it's fine not to want to. Some people believe a child is yours if you raise it regardless of biology. You don't believe that and many people are with you (have you read Stuart MacBride's Logan McRae series?? This same thing happens there).

Good luck in having the conversation. I'm sure it's easier to write down - would doing that help at all??

@ElizaDontlittle actually no. DH was adopted and I know better than many that a parents isn’t just whoever provided the sperm/egg. He does not WANT any of his sperm creating a life that he cannot be involved in. He wants HIS children to grow up know him as a parent. If for one wild second he did donate some sperm to this couple, he would physically see his child grow up not knowing he was their father. He would see this couple doing things he may not agree with and having absolutely no right to do/say anything about it.
I genuinely don’t understand how you can’t understand that?

And I've said, in both my posts, that it's fine not to want to.
But I've also attempted to explain that in gamete sharing, like with my friends, the couple you know do not get your eggs/sperm - it is donated anonymously elsewhere and the couple you do know receive someone else's. I came back to clarify that as I said in case for the many other people that take things from threads, I hadn't been clear. And I said, again, it's fine not to want to. We are all different and if my friends had gone through with it my eggs would have been a gift but not directly to them.

You need to be frank. Tell them this is 100 per cent not what your husband would consider. That fathering a child with another woman is not on your agenda either. There are plenty of agencies that provide that service and they need to focus on that.

If they jokingly raise the matter again, jokingly reply that your DH will be pleased to donate his sperm as part of a foursome, involving him, you and them two.

And if they still seem up for it, say your DH suffers from athlete's cock.

Those “chased for maintenance” stories aren’t relevant because one was before the change in the law, one was in America and one the “donor” was shagging the woman (as determined by the judge - he sounds like a particularly nasty piece of work).

Under English law, informal “turkey baster” donation to a married (or civil partnered) couple will not result in any parental responsibilities as long as both partners consent but you are well advised to get everyone’s consent in writing and witnessed at the time just in case.

Not relevant in the OP’s case of course because “No, that’s not something I would do” is a complete sentence. But I do see people on MN saying “he’d be liable to the CSA” all the time in these threads when it’s not true.

@ElizaDontlittle you don’t seem to be able to get that DH does not want to donate sperm to ANYONE for procreation purposes. With all due respect, the points you’re raising are entirely irrelevant for this very reason. You can come back time and time again to clarify what your friends did but that’s just you telling a story about your friends. It’s is not relevant and does not apply in this situation as DH does not want to give his sperm to anyone for procreational purposes. Not to them, not to strangers so they can get sperm cheaper, not to his best friend, not to anyone. He has made it very clear, the only children he wants to father are ones he will raise as part of our family unit.

Eliza’s not really talking to you OP, and certainly not trying to change your mind, she’s giving information to the thousands of unseen lurkers reading over your metaphorical shoulder, as was I.

OK not RTFT but a reason people want sperm donors via the clinic isn’t just to do with avoiding maintenance and keeping the donor anonymity until child is 18, but also because the sperm provided by a licensed UK clinic is guaranteed to be robust super A grade sperm, also free from STIs. Kind of like ‘medical grade’ sperm, IYSWIM.

It’s all exhaustively tested to make sure clinics only provide highly effective high quality sperm. That’s really very different, in terms of the actual chances of safely conceiving, from hoping to get pregnant with a man who has got someone pregnant at some point in time before. Or, a man who wants to coparent.

This very high standard of sperm used in clinics is partly why we have a lack of donated sperm in clinics from men from the UK. Because many men who might have applied years ago when there was life long donor anonymity via clinics now don’t apply, because all donors will need to be happy to be identifiable to the limited (by clinics) number of 18year olds they may have produced if their sperm had been used successfully.

From the remaining pool of potential donors who are happy to be identifiable in future, the vast majority are then screened out as donors after giving test samples. This is because their sperm is not of a high enough quality to be a donor via a clinic.

If the woman who wants to conceive by donation is 35+ years old, then in statistical terms, she would have the best chance if she uses high quality clinic-assured sperm.

There are also ways of getting reduced cost fertility treatment including IVF if they are serious about it, which have their own implications. (Like egg sharing schemes) though usually you have to be under 35 to be an egg donor in the UK. (again, for quality reasons so clinics can provide very good quality eggs.)

There are lots of websites with information about this- HFEA, Donor conception network etc.

(Incidentally there’s nothing to stop a willing egg or sperm donor going to donate via a licensed clinic with a couple they know, to become a known donor to that couple.
That allows everyone to have the legal protections of the legal donation relationship, rather than just the ‘donor’ becoming a biological father or mother of their baby without the legal protections if no clinic is involved.

But key point here is consent and your DH doesn’t want to be a donor at all so it’s absolutely fair enough that he isn’t one and no justification required.

OP, tbf Eliza has said she is giving info in case anyone else is interested, has wished you luck in telling your friend ‘no’ and suggested a tip to help... she’s not trying to persuade you.

I feel like I keep coming back to the maintenance issue, but can anyone provide any links to an occasion where a man has been chased for maintenance in this situation?

For me it'd be less about any possible maintenance issues, but more about the "kid want's to find their bio dad when they're 18 & turn up on the doorstep" type of thing.

On other threads in the past people have been very much in favour of people being able to track down their biological parents whether the parents want that or not.

He only wants to have kids with the OP & doesn't fancy creating one with this couple & then having to watch it brought up by people he doesn't particularly like - he'd have to be mad to want that!!

I think you need to take a step back and ask yourself why you can’t just say no way. What are you afraid of? It says a lot about your friendship dynamic that you haven’t said no. I’m with your H on this and from what you’ve written, I’m not particularly keen on them either.

No is a complete sentence, you neither have to justify or explain. If they get all weird about it then take the opportunity to distance yourself from them.

All this angst over a simple problem
'Can we have your DH's sperm?'
'No'
THE END.

To the last two poster, again, we haven’t said ‘no’ yet because they haven’t actually asked, Just once drunkenly and dropping hints about asking. That’s my main point here was whether I bring it up with them or wait for them to bring it up with me

If they ask say no. No is powerful by itself and does not need further explanation. Keep saying no until it hammers into their skulls.

No is a complete sentence as they say.

If its just once leave it. They may never ask again.

To the last two poster, again, we haven’t said ‘no’ yet because they haven’t actually asked, Just once drunkenly and dropping hints about asking

And they may never ask. You are making a drama out of nothing.
You know what to say if they ever do ask...'No' !
You could gasp and look horrified as you say no,....for dramatic effect. I would.

For those saying it isn't rude to ask. Yes, it bloody well is!!! It is only a small degree less rude than to ask to sleep with your husband or ask to adopt one of your children.

Just say no. Don't gave any reasons; you don't owe them any explanations. From the sound of it, your friend gets loose in the mouth when she's drunk, and if you give her one of the excuses suggested, she might blab it to all and sundry, which could cause problems/ embarrassment for you. She doesn't sound like she's grown up enough to be a mother anyway.