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AIBU?

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Original poster

To talk about the elephant in the room

206 replies

alittlebit · 04/11/2017 22:03

Okay, so.
My friend is a lesbian and has a wife. She has been very broody the whole time I’ve know her but she and her wife chose to use their savings on their wedding and assumed they would still be able to afford to go down a complicated fertility plan. So they wanted the wife’s egg and a donor sperm and my friend to carry the baby, which obviously costs a lot more than just using a sperm donor.
Now they have realised they can’t afford to do this as it’ll take years of saving and my friend is 35 so the chances of it working decrease each year (so I’m told).
So they’re looking for a sperm donor and one of them drunkenly (and I’m hoping jokingly) asked DH for some of his. We laughed it off and didn’t mention this again.
Went out with friend a few months later and after a few drinks she keeps mentioning that we have the perfect family, we have everything ‘made’, that every time we have sex, we’re just ‘flushing away’ what she and her wife desperately need. She has asked if we are planning anymore children, wouldn’t DS like any sibling, if either of us have ever considered donating eggs/sperm, how long it took us to conceive, wouldn’t it be nicer if we were all closer etc. Just awkward.
I just change the subject.

Other than the one time (said drunkenly and I’m still hoping, jokingly), they have never seriously asked DH. So am I making wild assumptions here or does it sound like they’re building up to ask him to be their donor?
If so... what the hell do you say to that?

OP posts:
NamasteNiki · 05/11/2017 11:16

Just brush her off. Pretend it didnt happen. If she asks outright tell her no.

CamperVamp · 05/11/2017 12:04

“Why Not?”

There may be groups of friends perfectly able to incorporate a child parented in this way into their social and family circle in an open and upfront way.

Otherwise issues involve:
Emotional issues for the bio father
Ethical issues: telling the OP’s children that they have a half sibling
Emotional issues for the OP; her partner having a bio child.
Potential future issues / confusion for the child, wanting to know the father, seeing the father in a social situation but not having a parental relationship
And so on.

It could be a minefield.

I know cases where gay men and lesbian couples have put this arrangement in place, with the father involved: he has done it because he has a close relationship with at least one of the women, and has no children of his own to parent.

I would feel weird as anything if my partner fathered someone else’s child and we had ongoing contact. Even if we didn’t!

BatteredBreadedOrSouthernFried · 05/11/2017 12:05

In this situation, the OP should be told all of the ramifications of a 'private' sperm donation deal. If only to further cement their stance on "no".

Confused

Her husband is 100% not interested. You can’t get more sure than that. Stop being silly. They aren’t entertaining the idea.

OVienna · 05/11/2017 12:14

OP seriously- you are over thinking this, to a bit of an odd degree. Sorry. I cannot believe you would be worried about upsetting her by saying no to a sperm donation but growing your own family. Don't bring it up, but just say no firmly but with no detailed explanation if they do again. Any engagement with the idea , even if it's a lengthy apology, is a bad idea. I'm hoping it was a joke on their part.

RandomMess · 05/11/2017 12:17

I think the simplest response is along the lines of “I would hate my DC to have a biological half-sibling, not comfortable with it all”

Don’t even need to bring DH into it and it’s not negotiable.

Dreams16 · 05/11/2017 12:27

No way what so ever no no no no your husband isn’t a sperm bank for them and you aren’t an egg bank either and why should you and your husband do this for them sorry no no

If it carries on distance yourself complete loons

Original poster
alittlebit · 05/11/2017 12:36

Well personally I would say yes. Why not?

Because DH doesn’t want to.

OP posts:
Nannyplumbrocks · 05/11/2017 12:37

Put it out of your head, assume it was said in jest while drunk. If she brings it up again or even hints at it put her straight, no way would we participate in that. Simples. Also its actually quite inexpensive to buy sperm. Its IVF which is expensive which it sounds like they dont need

Gottagetmoving · 05/11/2017 14:29

Because DH doesn’t want to

There is no issue then. You don't even have to be involved or worry about it. It's not like they or you can decide one way or another....because it's HIS sperm!

NellWilsonsWhiteHair · 05/11/2017 15:10

Some responses on this thread are weird. I suspect the women seeking a donor are very clear that he is not going to be a father in the familial or financial sense. Totally reasonable that the DH isn't comfortable, but really not shocking and offensive for them to be asking, surely? People have very different feelings around what gamete donation means, and for lots of families it's not an awkward matter at all.

BoneyBackJefferson · 05/11/2017 15:12

BatteredBreadedOrSouthernFried

As we all know to well some people don't take no for an answer, the more information that someone has the better prepared they are.

If you consider that silly then so be it.

BatteredBreadedOrSouthernFried · 05/11/2017 15:14

What’s silly is everyone getting so far ahead of themselves that they are advising OP about child support her DH will have to pay for a child he will never have! Do you seriously think if these people keep saying “oh pleaaaase!” That her DH will cave and say “oh alright then”?

Gemini69 · 05/11/2017 15:16

I don't think it's the 'asking' that's the issue.. it's the 'continual' asking and questioning of the OP's sexual activities and future baby plans...

that's not just rude.. it's highly inappropriate... WTF Hmm

ElizaDontlittle · 05/11/2017 15:19

I know that in egg donation, if you have a friend that donates (to another couple obviously) it reduces the price for the couple. So would your DH be willing on that basis? When my closest friends were told they would need IVF and I was younger and thinner than I am now - and a bit younger than them, still under 30 - I offered on that basis. I don't think that's unreasonable to ask a friend though it's obviously utterly entirely reasonable to say no.

BoneyBackJefferson · 05/11/2017 15:21

BatteredBreadedOrSouthernFried

I know quite a few people that have been emotionally blackmailed in to doing things that they don't want to do, from really small things to quite large things that have grown even further.

And as for the financial responsibility, this won't be in the hands of the OP's DH, it is a legal responsibility that other women in this (exact) situation have had enforced.

I also beleave that in all situations it is not stupid to think about what could happen in the future.

ArcheryAnnie · 05/11/2017 15:21

redshoeblueshoe, IncyWincy, Twooter - it's right there in the OP's first post that the couple thought at the time they'd be able to afford both. And there's no information in that first post about how lavish or frugal the wedding was.

In any case, I still can't imagine anyone berating a straight couple for paying for a wedding before they have a child. I have certainly never ever spotted it on Mumsnet, including on posts about IVF.

BatteredBreadedOrSouthernFried · 05/11/2017 15:24

Oh FGS! Okay boney. Whatever you say.

specialsubject · 05/11/2017 15:43

If she is as described then she has a lot of growing up to do before she'll make a decent parent.

she sounds very hard work.

PoorYorick · 05/11/2017 15:44

Well personally I would say yes. Why not?

How much time have you got?

Original poster
alittlebit · 05/11/2017 15:53

@ElizaDontlittle no. He wouldn’t be willing in any sense to give any other his sperm for procreation purposes other than me.
He doesn’t want a family with anyone else. His words, not mine.
He wants children with only me. He doesn’t want children popping up who he will have no relationship with, or a mother that he doesn’t particularly like. Imagine having to watch someone else raise and parent your child and having no say over anything?

OP posts:
LoverOfCake · 05/11/2017 16:04

Actually I think that it's wrong to ask anyone to donate sperm or eggs so that they can have a child.

Now I will state up-front that I don't agree with donation but that's an entirely different topic. However I believe that donation should only ever be offered as a gift because asking creates to much of an expectation.

For me though the solution would be simple. Because my partner donating sperm to someone else would be a deal-breaker in my own relationship. So I would simply tell the woman that I would never donate eggs to anyone and that for me, I wouldn't stay with a man who chose to father a child with someone else, no matter how altruistic that was considered to be, so while she of course would be free to ask him, it would mean the end of his marriage.

NellWilsonsWhiteHair · 05/11/2017 17:44

I feel like I keep coming back to the maintenance issue, but can anyone provide any links to an occasion where a man has been chased for maintenance in this situation? I've not come across one previously and I'm not sure how well those speculating understand the law in this area.

The law on donor conception changed recently-ish (2008?), and the status is as follows (Stonewall have a guide available on their website which probably uses better language than I am):

  • lesbian couple conceive at clinic, using "anonymous" (actually ID-release) sperm from a sperm bank: the non birth mother will be registered as second parent on the birth certificate, the donor is not legally recognised as a parent (you can only ever have two of those), the donor is not liable for financial support.
  • lesbian couple conceive at a clinic, taking a male friend / relative as their sperm donor. Provided all HFEA paperwork is sorted correctly by the clinic, the non birth mother will be registered as second parent on the birth certificate, the donor is not legally recognised as a parent and is not financially liable. This is clearly the scenario the OP's friends are envisaging, because they want to do IVF!!
  • lesbian couple conceive at home, through artificial insemination. This one is trickier. Theoretically, if the women are married or civilly partnered, the non birth mother will still be registered as the second parent. However, I'm not sure how this would work if the women subsequently claimed that the child was conceived through sex instead. Effectively I think they have ten months from conception to change their mind, break their promise, and decide they would rather be able to chase the donor for child support, prioritising this above e.g. the second mother being able to travel with the child, have a protected say in their medical and educational matters etc. This is what I don't think has yet been legally tested, although happy to be corrected if anyone can direct me towards the relevant case/s. I suppose it's not risk free, for the donor, although I do think the couple would have to be particularly unstable to do this...

Aside from this point, I'm grateful to my children's donor (who is interested and available, not as a father, and who was only happy to help supply a missing ingredient). I'm also largely not interested, beyond ideal curiosity, in the two children born from my anonymously donated eggs. I imagine that their parents, who longed very much for children, are raising them competently and lovingly, I don't feel personally responsible for them in the slightest, and - crudely? - I did feel very much that, when I was not TTC myself, my eggs were simply wasted and might as well be put to good use.

PoorYorick · 05/11/2017 19:26

I am astounded that anyone should be unable to think of any reason why a man might not want to be a sperm donor and might not appreciate passive aggressive comments about it.

Besides, with a fertility plan that complicated, getting the sperm will be the least of their troubles.

NellWilsonsWhiteHair · 05/11/2017 19:46

Yes, Boney, but two of those cases clearly do not relate to the scenario here, as per my previous post: the first is a child conceived before the law changed, the third is in the US. The second is most closely relevant and speaks to the question I asked about my scenario 3. It'd be interesting to see more on this - the extent to which there was any evidence corroborating the woman's claim that the child was conceived naturally.

The gov.uk link, as per my post, is clear that donors are not legal parents for donor conceptions at licensed clinics - which is what these women are interested in doing, because they want to egg share between themselves.

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