To expect school to respect privacy wishes of 9 year old?

[streetlife70s]

Hi, not a first time poster with a weird first time post but a briefly returning flouncer needing a little perspective please.

Like a lot of families we have discussed bodily autonomy, consent etc at home and both kids schools have done the same in recent months (DD9 and DS11) with targeted lessons on these topics.

From around the age of 7 both kids started to cover up more around us, asked for privacy in bathroom etc etc and we took our cue from them and did the same (so far so normal right?)

DD is not 'ashamed' of her body any more than me or DH are before anyone says that, but that doesn't equate to lack of privacy. So for example, when we go swimming as a family I don't have a problem with how I look in a cossie but I always get changed in a cubicle.

DD 9 has said this morning she no longer wants to use the communal changing rooms at school swimming because she wants to get changed in private. There are no private cubicles and she says she finds it too difficult to get changed single handedly holding a towel.

Her words were, "so how come I have the right to be private at home and when we go swimming as a family but then a teacher can tell me tell me to get my clothes off in front of a bunch of other kids at school?"

Errrm, not sure how to handle this one. I asked her to go and speak to her teacher before swimming about how she feels. I don't want to be 'that' parent expecting special treatment for DD but equally, in one lesson she has been taught about having rights over her body which trumps the rights of teachers, family etc and on the other hand are we saying "no, if you're told to get undressed in front of people and you feel uncomfortable you shouldn't because that's silly / they are all girls / a teacher says so / there is nowhere else?"

How would you handle this? (expecting perhaps call from school later)

Don't you think it would be better for your dd if when you went to family pools etc you just whipped it all off and changed? It is a hang up and at least partly coming from you.

I have lots of sisters who are perfectly comfortable stripping off in front of each other, or in a communal space, or sharing a bedroom at family occasions. I am not. Ever.

It's not always a hang up. Physical and/or psychological reasons stop me being as blasé about my body as my sisters are with theirs. Nor did my parents pass on any 'hang ups' to me.

I didn't go to school rather than suffer situations like this so it really is better to see if there is a solution.

Op, have you discussed the poncho towel with your daughter? If so, is she happy with it and how did she get on today?
Brave girl to stand her ground, nice to see a younger one who is confident enough to voice her own opinions and not be a sheep!!

Does she wear a skirt/dress to school? if so it might be easier for her to change under that rather than a towel (so tights/underwear off, costume on, wiggle up over her chest, clothes off then put arms into costume, that's how I get changed on the beach).

She should absolutely get some privacy but I work in a school and genuinely can't think of a way that I could give privacy to everyone that wanted it, without spending the entire lesson time waiting while a few get changed at a time. Also there are certain children who struggle enough to get on with it and get changed with everyone around them, without putting them in individual cubicles where I can't see when I need to remind them to stop daydreaming.

"so how come I have the right to be private at home and when we go swimming as a family but then a teacher can tell me tell me to get my clothes off in front of a bunch of other kids at school?"

Haven't read the full thread but just want to say how smart your daughter sounds. What a great argument shes making fir herself -
Potential Future barrister there

We used to change on the beach in a towel tube with loose elastic gathering the head end together - instant privacy. My gran made them but I bet you can buy them now?

everyone is female and you all have similar parts so you shouldn't be ashamed?

But at this age the whole problem is that the girls aren't all similar. Some of them have bodies like a typical 5 year old and some have bodies more like a 20 year old. That's the whole problem.

We use the local pool for lessons. They do have cubicles and the year 6 girls get a cubicle each. The rest of the school (year 2 up) have to go in cubicles in pairs. My son said whoever he changes with they go back to back.
I saw someone on here say about cubicles for pe changing in secondary. Our primary for year 5 and 6 is girls room and boys room (actually the girls get the classroom and boys the cloakroom) and the same at secondary school. They all change in one room together. Not sure there'd be room for cubicles. But it's not like they strip off naked for pe. So can't see the problem there.

Sew 3 bath towels together, turn over one end thread elástic through leaving enough room to go over head. Hey presto a toweling tent to dry yourself under. My mum made these when we were young and went to the beach at week ends & holidays, ideal.

Do you have a sewing machine? You could provide your DD with her own private beach-changing-tent 😊 I would get some quick-drye fabric, make it into a large tube with an elastic band through the top seam. DD can pull this over her head, it'll stay put around her neck or just below, she can freely (un)dress in her tent! Make it large enough so she can move her arms and bend her legs easily under the tent.

This is one of the reasons why girls and young women don't pursue sport at school! Being made to feel embarrassed. It happened to me at school (25 years ago ) still makes me sad thinking back.
The poncho towel idea is good. Or are there loo cubicles? I'm not sure what the answer is but I totally understand where your daughter is coming from.

Your dd has a very good point.
In my days at secondary school, back in the 80s, the PE teachers would make us use the communal showers, taking our towels off us as we went in.
On a separate issue, my dd’s school has hit the press for installing cctv in the toilets, including above cubicles and urinals, although school assure us they don’t actually show pupils going to the toilet. There’s been no consultation, parents are understandably up in arms, and kids are saying they’ll hold it in all day rather than go. Will be interesting to see how it pans out, so to speak.

My child had exactly the same problem. So I got a long piece of Balcro and sewed it on his towel so he could get changed hands free. Worked a treat. The school do it for safety reasons as the swimming baths are public.

My children learnt the knivker trick put swimsuit ontop and ease knivkers out from underneath

Knicker! Not sure what spell check did

Brave girl to stand her ground, nice to see a younger one who is confident enough to voice her own opinions and not be a sheep!!

Agree with this poster completely. Why do some of you seem to think anyone who doesn’t want to get it all out wherever you may get feel fine doing it has a ‘hang up’? What does that even mean?
Is a desire for privacy now seen as a huge failing?
This girl is saying what she wants. If the school can’t provide it then perhaps her teacher could meet with her to say so. Is she not entitled to make representation of her views without the ‘snowflake’ slag-off which gets flung around here for absolutely everything? Ffs, as soon as someone sticks up for themselves and actually does what we all hope our kids do will do- talk to her parent about something bothering her- we assume she’s being precious.
And so nothing changes.

I don't think it is comparable to bodily autonomy or consent. Doing something that makes you uncomfortable is totally different to someone doing something to you that you don't want.

It is no different to refusing to do PE at all because they don't like it or refusing to wear the school uniform because it makes them uncomfortable in some way.

In our culture, it is perfectly normal to get changed in a communal changing room. As an adult, you don't have to do anything you would rather not but as a child, you do.

I'd be asking her why she is uncomfortable and have a conversation about why changing is nothing to be embarrassed about.

Why can't she go and get changed in the toilet?

treacle "The right to not strip naked in front of other people is absolutely fundamental in my view."

agree. there has to be a way to provide cubicles or allow use of toilets or anything. A child should not be made to feel a freak because they want privacy when undressed.

Quote Article 16 of UNICEF Rights of the Child which clearly states that a child has the right to privacy. If your child wishes to change in private, they have that right. However, the towel option means that they wouldn't need to be apart of singled out.

Make her a towel changing robe - put two bath towels together. Sew sides and shoulders leaving gap for head and arms. She can change underneath. That said she’ll draw more attention to herself doing the whole big fuss thing. I personally think it’s sad that a seven year old feels the need for privacy from their parents who have imposed anxiety around their bodies and think it’s much healthier for little ones to not give a fig - but each to their own.
Not sure it’s the school problem at all.

Your only option here is to withdraw her from swimming lessons, as there won't be room for every child to change both safely and privately.

Schools have to give lessons though, parents can't remove pupils from them unless there is a medical reason why they can't swim. Friends of mine wanted to withdraw their children, as did I because the lessons offered were at a lower level than they were already swimming at. We weren't allowed to - two different schools both said it was a requirement.

Children at 7 who want privacy going to the toilet at 7 aren't going through a fundamental stage of sexual development, they are just cottoning on to the social norms. They have seen that adults go to the toilet alone so wish to imitate that. In some parts of the world, people go to the toilet together and in those countries, children don't ask to go to the toilet alone because it isn't a thing.

It is social development not sexual development but it is misguided because she hasn't yet learned that there is an exception to the rule that you shouldn't be naked in public and that is in a public changing room.

If she wanted to wear a hat to school because she was uncomfortable showing her hair. You would say you are sorry it makes her uncomfortable but although hats are appropriate in other situations, you can't wear them to school. She would have to take it off.

Why is that different to the swimming one? You think it is different because in European culture, hair isn't sexual unlike breasts and buttocks but they also aren't sexual in the context of getting changed for swimming.

That exception only applies to people who choose to be naked in a public changing room. Many adults choose not to be.

I don't think it is comparable to bodily autonomy or consent. Doing something that makes you uncomfortable is totally different to someone doing something to you that you don't want.

But if someone doesn't consent to being seen undressed then they are having something done to them against their will.

In our culture, it is perfectly normal to get changed in a communal changing room.

And I repeat what I said above. My local pool ONLY has cubicles so it is normal to change in private.

Admittedly the old leisure centre had communal areas, but it also had cubicles and I always used it.

Think also, not just of girls, but boys/men who have only one testicle as a result of the other one not descending properly. They'd probably prefer a cubicle too.

And wanting to wear a hat to school is very very different from not wanting to show your naked body to others.