To expect school to respect privacy wishes of 9 year old?

[streetlife70s]

Hi, not a first time poster with a weird first time post but a briefly returning flouncer needing a little perspective please.

Like a lot of families we have discussed bodily autonomy, consent etc at home and both kids schools have done the same in recent months (DD9 and DS11) with targeted lessons on these topics.

From around the age of 7 both kids started to cover up more around us, asked for privacy in bathroom etc etc and we took our cue from them and did the same (so far so normal right?)

DD is not 'ashamed' of her body any more than me or DH are before anyone says that, but that doesn't equate to lack of privacy. So for example, when we go swimming as a family I don't have a problem with how I look in a cossie but I always get changed in a cubicle.

DD 9 has said this morning she no longer wants to use the communal changing rooms at school swimming because she wants to get changed in private. There are no private cubicles and she says she finds it too difficult to get changed single handedly holding a towel.

Her words were, "so how come I have the right to be private at home and when we go swimming as a family but then a teacher can tell me tell me to get my clothes off in front of a bunch of other kids at school?"

Errrm, not sure how to handle this one. I asked her to go and speak to her teacher before swimming about how she feels. I don't want to be 'that' parent expecting special treatment for DD but equally, in one lesson she has been taught about having rights over her body which trumps the rights of teachers, family etc and on the other hand are we saying "no, if you're told to get undressed in front of people and you feel uncomfortable you shouldn't because that's silly / they are all girls / a teacher says so / there is nowhere else?"

How would you handle this? (expecting perhaps call from school later)

It is much harder for children to go through this communal changing (around puberty) than it is for adults. Children can be a thousand times crueller.

On the other hand, not minding being undressed in front of others can be useful later in life and makes going to sauna/spa a lot less of an issue. I am always surprised when friends have to scuttle off to cubicles to change or wear a costume in sauna. It is quite easy to not be naked for ages in front of others in communal changing room and to avert your eyes from staring at other people. But I don’t think you learn to do this from communal changing at school - I have friends who don’t mind, friends who go to changing rooms, friends who contort under their towels like Houdini - and they all went through the communal changing experience, so it clearly didn’t affect us all the same way.

Your dd is right to highlight the contradiction. However, she also has to learn that sometimes there are logistics involved that scupper a logical line of thought.
.
As adults we would make a choice as to whether we would go swimming or not,maybe try a different pool. Your dd doesn't really have that option. However the school don't really have much option either unless there is another pool near by that won't increase costs. So she may have to look at one of the special towel options mentioned by pp.
.
To others suggesting cubicles, not all pools have them. Not all cubicles are set up in a way that would make a whole class using them a feasible option. Some pools are private, some public, some public pools close in order to have school groups. These things all impact how a school can implement swimming sessions.
.
Safe guarding is always an issue in pools.

My local pool has cubicals for individuals, cubicals for couples/ groups of threes, and family cubicals. They also have 'school only' changing rooms which look like giant locker rooms, one for girls one for boys. I'd feel uncomfortable as your dd too. We teach that nobody should be looking at their bodies but then shove them in a room of their peers and tell them to get naked. It's inevitable that some won't be comfortable with it. What about the kid who's had extensive surgery and doesn't want to be asked about the scars? What about the dc who are going through early puberty?
When I was that age we were 5 to a cubicle and there was a pillar in one that I'd use to hide behind to get changed. Sharing a room with my brother from a young age taught me the urge to cover in front of others. I'm certainly not ashamed of my body, but I don't intentionally show it to others.
The towel is a great idea, I'll look online for one for my ds. At 4, he wants to get changed in private after swimming lessons already, I only help when he actually needs it

It's quite sad that such a young child thinks she needs to hide herself away, as if she has something to be ashamed of.

My DS2 is 4. Since he was 2 he preferred not to be naked around people other than family - he disappears off into another room to get dressed in the morning, shuts the door when he uses the toilet etc (unlike his older brother who until recently would have happily got changed in the middle of a supermarket, talking and waving to people walking by I think.. he completely lacked inhibition). He's not ashamed, DP and I wander around naked and get dressed around him etc - he just prefers to do it in private himself. I'm not going to bully him into it pointlessly (although I have chivvied and re-assured it's all fine when we've had to change in semi-public)

Well done for listening and finding a solution which will hopefully suit everyone.

As an adult I hate communal changing rooms. I just do. We all walk around naked at home (2 & 4 year old, me and DH) but my body is mine and I choose who sees it. I would support my DDs exactly how you've supported yours. It's not OK to make people take their clothes off in front of other people. I wonder if much of PE refusal or dislike is associated with this? I hated the communal showers at secondary school till they put cubicles and curtains on.

If there arent enough cubicles, shes just going to have to get on with it or you can withdraw her from swimming. My dd always hates having to be paired with the girls that are overly embarrassed about their bodies when it comes to getting changed for swimming. Not sure what they think other 9 year olds are going to be looking at.

This is exactly why I refused point blank to do PE at school. Granted I was a little older as it was when we went to senior school. But still. I had so many detentions over refusing to do PE. I didn't refuse to do PE, I refused to get changed infront of everyone else (as did a couple of others) but we were told we were not allowed to get changed in the loo or anything so if we didn't change in the open room...it was refusal to do PE

I don't think the school will change their stance on this, mine certainly didn't and this was ages ago now.

I don't know how you can solve this, I am so very sorry and yes your daughter has a valid point and her wishes should not be ignored.

I think your daughter has a point. But if there isn't the facilities for this there isn't. FWIW I didn't like getting changed for PE in the communal changing room. But there was no choice.

I understand your point but logistically it's a night mare to try and supervise children in individual changing rooms especially if it's a mixed sex class at our school all the girls go in one communal room and the boys in another with a member of staff outside each room.

I'm not happy with the idea that we all shrug our shoulders and say 'what can you do, that's just how things are'.

I think that children's bodily autonomy should be an absolute right and if they don't want to undress in front of others they shouldn't have to.

We used to shrug our shoulders and say a 'that's just how it is' about so many things that we now look back on and say 'I can't believe that happened'.

Changing in front of people is not a bodily autonomy issue for me, any more than having to do other things that might make you uncomfortable (answering questions, speaking, sitting in a particular place), they can all cause anxiety, and are all things which in an ideal world full reasonable allowances would be made.

However, the cost of the allowance is too much, and the harm in anxiety of the child doesn't unfortunately outweigh it, communal changing is the norm in society today, for adults as much as children, and it is a reasonable allowance for the privacy to be obtained via a towel as above.

If the anxiety is severe enough to prevent access at all, and a towel-like solution is not sufficient, then there might be a further way that it could be done, but it would need to be reasonable, simply "I can do it at home, why can't I at school?" is not a sufficient reason.

I am a member of a gym. There are only 4 cubicles in the whole changing area. Many women stand stark naked as they dress and dry off. I strip off and get changed. I dont really care. Children are also allowed in the club. The children are dried and dressed along with the adults also doing so

Good for you but you are totally missing the point. Some people are uncomfortable with being naked with other people and we should respect those wishes.

OP, you sound like a great parent giving your dd confidence to say when she's uncomfortable. Hope the towel thing works.

Your discomfort is your issue though.

People have said they will choose who they share their body with. Wtf?!

They are sharing it with anyone in a communal changing room as newsflash NO ONE IS INTERESTED OR LOOKING AT YOUR BLOODY BODY!

They are too wrapped up with their own dressing or changing.

Its quite arrogant of people to assume anyone is looking or cares. No one is.

If the reply is going to be we know nobody is looking...get over yourself then.

*arent sharing it with anyone

*Its quite arrogant of people to assume anyone is looking or cares. No one is.

If the reply is going to be we know nobody is looking...get over yourself then.*

That's true as adults. But it's very different for curious 9 and 10 year olds. I remember girls who were more developed than others having their towel snatched away so that everyone could see etc (and laugh). It's simply not true to say that no one ever looks at others in changing rooms.

But then in swimming you can see who has developed breasts etc without snatching a towel off.

Changing robes for surfing are brilliant www.robierobes.com/buy/buy-robie-original

But then in swimming you can see who has developed breasts etc without snatching a towel off.

But that's not the same because you're not swimming naked.

Don't pander to it life is full of communal changing rooms.
Get her a big towel if she really needs it. It should not be an issue at this age.
School cannot be expected to cope with waiting for every kid to go in a cubicle.

So many posters have no idea of the reality of schools.
The OP is totally sensible - listening to their child but aware that the class teacher cannot just get out some bricks and build individual changing rooms (after they've done their marking and planning of course).

So many posters suggesting campaigning to the school - do they really think it's the class teacher who designed the changing areas and has the power to change them?

As a student I worked in 2 different summer camps. In one, there were individual changing rooms in a perfect straight line. In the other, 2 large communal areas. Nothing to do with me, I just helped the kids and kept them as safe as I could.

What would you honestly expect a teacher to do if there were not enough individual changing rooms for the correct number of students in a close together location?

I think it's fine at her age to say 'no, I don't want to' when it comes to being naked in front of others. You wouldn't force her to bathe with a sibling at that age. She's starting to grow up, becoming aware of her body and if it hasn't yet it will start changing soon.

OP does she have swimming in the mornings? When I was roughly her age we had swimming early on so on those days I (and most of the girls in my class) used to put our cossies on under our clothes at home so we just used to have to undress without being naked. Then after I recall it was showering with cossies on, and drying off and getting redressed under towels - I wish they'd have had those poncho/poppered towels in the early 90's!

Maybe it's time she grew up a little?

I think the point @Ttbb is that she is growing up. She's learning (and has been taught at home) that she doesn't have to be naked in front at others if she doesn't want to. It is her body. This isn't precious, or being snowflakey, it's in line with safeguarding guidance which incidentally has recently been taught in her school. Bravo to the parents IMO.

No one would force an adult to strip off in a room of their peers or colleagues. Ok, as an adult you have a choice not to attend something, but you would also have the choice to seek out somewhere else to change. Most adults would use a cubicle if they wanted or failing that find a toilet. A child doesn't have this option.

Maybe it's time she grew up a little?

Exactly, because as a grown up she will not be forced to strip off if she doesn't want to. So she shouldn't have to do it as a child either.