To expect school to respect privacy wishes of 9 year old?

[streetlife70s]

Hi, not a first time poster with a weird first time post but a briefly returning flouncer needing a little perspective please.

Like a lot of families we have discussed bodily autonomy, consent etc at home and both kids schools have done the same in recent months (DD9 and DS11) with targeted lessons on these topics.

From around the age of 7 both kids started to cover up more around us, asked for privacy in bathroom etc etc and we took our cue from them and did the same (so far so normal right?)

DD is not 'ashamed' of her body any more than me or DH are before anyone says that, but that doesn't equate to lack of privacy. So for example, when we go swimming as a family I don't have a problem with how I look in a cossie but I always get changed in a cubicle.

DD 9 has said this morning she no longer wants to use the communal changing rooms at school swimming because she wants to get changed in private. There are no private cubicles and she says she finds it too difficult to get changed single handedly holding a towel.

Her words were, "so how come I have the right to be private at home and when we go swimming as a family but then a teacher can tell me tell me to get my clothes off in front of a bunch of other kids at school?"

Errrm, not sure how to handle this one. I asked her to go and speak to her teacher before swimming about how she feels. I don't want to be 'that' parent expecting special treatment for DD but equally, in one lesson she has been taught about having rights over her body which trumps the rights of teachers, family etc and on the other hand are we saying "no, if you're told to get undressed in front of people and you feel uncomfortable you shouldn't because that's silly / they are all girls / a teacher says so / there is nowhere else?"

How would you handle this? (expecting perhaps call from school later)

Surely just teach her how to change under towels. I'm not really seeing how this is anything but a need to teach a skill. As someone said upthread get her to wear costume in, then there's only one change. What does she do at the beach as a matter of interest?

Since my kids were babies they have been in the communal changing rooms at my gym.
They know that most people do not observe anything at all
so found changing for PE no hassle at all.
They use a cubicle if its easily available and don't if it isn't

teaching kids to have unnecessary hangups is not good for them.

I think as an adult you have that choice, and also you're more aware of yourself and others. You choose whether to use a communal area or private or get changed under a towel
And she should have that choice. At 9 I was having regular periods, boobs and pubic hair and it was all a bit overwhelming. Mostly because my friends hadn't, and I was self conscious about this new body I had grown!
Now I will change in front of anyone but in that period of time I needed to have the privacy and choice, for my mind to catch up to my body
I was a child with a very adult body and it was confusing to me

How is not wanting someone other than to see you naked something negative? A hang up = something wrong with you.

I'm fine with HCP and when bra fitting but wouldn't be happy in a mixed changing room. I have my reasons but they aren't hang ups and there's nothing wrong with me.

whisk that’s not the way I thought your post was going, hah! I’m with you, start her off campaigning!
(Although sounds like the towel will sort it, which is great)

Coming from a different culture, it is something I will never get how prudish people are about their bodies in this country. The other day I had to go and see a Dr about some suspect moles on my back. The moment I reached to undo my bra under my top, the male Dr jumped up and ran out to get a chaperone, followed by 5 min of awkward conversation from him until TWO lady chaperones arrived. These two were smirking at me and beaming from ear to ear, presumably at me having chosen a male Dr (he is very good and I knew he wouldn’t brush my concerns away!) I was just like WTF at it all. It is a 2 min look at my BACK at some moles. What is all this about?

Where I come from, attitudes to human body, nudity and sex are so much more common sense and natural. Men have certain body parts, women have other set of body parts. Yeah, what’s the big deal? I cringe in English changing rooms when women seem to go to such inconvenience and faff trying to put clothes on while holding onto your towel at all times. Germans and Finns attend communal baths together and these nations are not known as having higher proportion of perverts. If you take the stigma and shame out of what is normal and natural thing, it stops fuelling unhealthy tendencies. IMHO

It is a hang up not being able to function in situations where it's completely normal to get changed.

People learn to either get over it or deal with it their own way but it doesn't make it less of a hang up!

JustWonderingZ are those other cultures less nasty about growing bodies? That's a genuine question btw. I've always wondered about that because my experience of final year at primary school and first couple of years at secondary school was of relentless nastiness to children whose 'boobs were too big' or who were 'too hairy' etc. And the only answer, like on this thread, seemed to be 'suck it up'.

Agree again treacle. Only now my Dd has left school has she told me the worst hellish bullying for her took place in the PE changing room.

She used to hide in the toilet whilst girls who (contrary to previous posts) presumably were taking some notice of how she looked, banged on the door and yelled abuse over the top about how she was too thin and anorexic.

PE teachers (yes ok some, not all) do a great job of looking the other way when things like that go on. In her case, years, until she ended up hating her lovely looks.

And hating PE too.

A lot of women humiliated in school during PE carry that forward.

Yeah but it’s not ‘normal’ if there has never been other situations where she has been required to undress in front of others. As a family when we go swimming there have only been cubicles so we used them. The only time we go on the beach is when it’s so hot that we just dry off, stick t shirt and shorts over the top and drive home. I agree we are prudish in the UK but there seems to be an awful lot of victim blaming on this thread. Girls in particular are constantly bombarded with insidious messages about their bodies through the media, advertisements, through witnessing the shaming of their mothers breast feeding their younger siblings (my experience and I’m sure I’m not alone) and cat calls / comments from men about their mothers or even them as they walk along the street. If you think 9 year old girls don’t look or comment on other girls as they internalise these messages and project them onto their peers then I’d say you have either been lucky or are naive. So when kids decide that actually, they wish to keep their developing breasts, sanitary items, pubic hair, scars or whatever else they may have that some of their peers don’t, to suddenly accuse them of being precious, immature, arrogant little snowflakes who have hang ups is pretty shit. Yet again, it’s the fault of the girls, never the fault of the behaviour of others in society.

treaclesoda this is such a sad reading. I have got a DD, so it worries me.

No, it is not something we have in our culture (Eastern European). Or if we do, it is certainly nowhere near as nasty, harassing and mean. I have been used to stripping down completely and then putting my swimwear on in front of other girls/women in a changing room growing up. But then everybody else did the same thing, so I wasn’t the only one sans towel. Yes you got to get a glimpse of other people’s bodies, but there was no perving, jeering or anything of the sort.

The British got a big massive complex and a hang-up to do with nudity, sadly. I love most parts of the culture, but not this particular aspect, I am afraid... there can be a way to be relaxed, accepting and matter of fact about a human body.

On about page 3 I asked what people would realistically do in a situation like this. Nobody has responded. Continuous posters saying the OPs daughter is right - suport her. Tell the teacher to change the set up!

I pointed out that the teacher did not create the set up. The head teacher probably didn't. They are just doing the best with what they've got. Should they buy some bricks then? Mumsnet meet up for cynical building?

Eh? I was one of many who suggested that the girl was entitled to privacy if she wanted it, but she was most likely to get it by investing in one of the towel-tents that others had recommended, as there probably weren't enough cubicles or supervising staff to enable the children to change in cubicles.

I’m with your DD on this one as I hated PE changing rooms and communal showers where you didn’t have a speck of privacy - glad those towels exist now!

streetlife your post of 17.56 is spot on and I agree with every word. Really can’t believe some of the posts on this thread.

Love to know where people supporting the OP think schools are going to get the space and resources to install individual cubicles...

Not read all comments but ia there a toilet she can go in. Not ideal but is a bit more private. The poncho towel sounds like a good plan.

I haven't read the thread so apologies if this has been mentioned.

Can she wear her costume under her uniform before her lesson? My daughter does this but her lesson is first thing.

I spoke to school re my other daughter who was more body conscious and had started developing. The school were great and allowed her to get changed in a cubicle on her own or at a push the toilet cubicles.

My suggestion for both my daughter's is to find a corner and dress with their backs to the room.

It is hard juggling getting changed and trying to maintain dignity/privacy.

Don't you think it would be better for your dd if when you went to family pools etc you just whipped it all off and changed? It is a hang up and at least partly coming from you. That is what I plan to do unless I am trying to contain a toddler to a cubicle.In an ideal world everyone would be comfortable in environments that are supposed to include nudity i.e. Changing rooms. I am sure boys schools have as much bullying but they certainly change under towels far far less. Couldn't you explain to your dd that changing in changerooms is one of those things- everyone is female and you all have similar parts so you shouldn't be ashamed? Nudity is entirely different from protecting against sexual harassment.

My school many many years ago had individual cubicles - and individual showers

My local swimming pool used to have lots of individual cubicles as well.
Now it seems to be the other way around, a huge communal area with perhaps one or two private changing rooms.

I really feel for your daughter. I absolutely hated getting changed in front of other people at school (still do).
My school was exactly the same set up. We always had swimming in the morning so I would wear my swimsuit under my school clothes so I didn’t have to be actually
Naked and then I had a very ancient version of the poncho towels people have been suggesting which I then put over my wet swimsuit to change under.
It’s a really difficult one, I understand the schools point of view but by 9, children (girls especially) are starting to change both physically and mentally and it does seem a little old to still be naked in front of other children.

Sorry, I’ve just seen that AliBobBob had suggested the same thing x

Love to know where people supporting the OP think schools are going to get the space and resources to install individual cubicles...

They are not expecting anything of the sort. I'm sure the OP knows there are practical limitations in installing cubicles.

But some sort of validation of her dd's feelings might be nice. Rather than brush off her comments and told to get on with it.