To expect school to respect privacy wishes of 9 year old?

[streetlife70s]

Hi, not a first time poster with a weird first time post but a briefly returning flouncer needing a little perspective please.

Like a lot of families we have discussed bodily autonomy, consent etc at home and both kids schools have done the same in recent months (DD9 and DS11) with targeted lessons on these topics.

From around the age of 7 both kids started to cover up more around us, asked for privacy in bathroom etc etc and we took our cue from them and did the same (so far so normal right?)

DD is not 'ashamed' of her body any more than me or DH are before anyone says that, but that doesn't equate to lack of privacy. So for example, when we go swimming as a family I don't have a problem with how I look in a cossie but I always get changed in a cubicle.

DD 9 has said this morning she no longer wants to use the communal changing rooms at school swimming because she wants to get changed in private. There are no private cubicles and she says she finds it too difficult to get changed single handedly holding a towel.

Her words were, "so how come I have the right to be private at home and when we go swimming as a family but then a teacher can tell me tell me to get my clothes off in front of a bunch of other kids at school?"

Errrm, not sure how to handle this one. I asked her to go and speak to her teacher before swimming about how she feels. I don't want to be 'that' parent expecting special treatment for DD but equally, in one lesson she has been taught about having rights over her body which trumps the rights of teachers, family etc and on the other hand are we saying "no, if you're told to get undressed in front of people and you feel uncomfortable you shouldn't because that's silly / they are all girls / a teacher says so / there is nowhere else?"

How would you handle this? (expecting perhaps call from school later)

As a veteran of changing on the beach as a child and teen, it seems that this life-skill has been lost to the younger generation!

Our local swimming pool only has cubicles, there are open showers (unlike the one in the next town which is also a council pool) but not really enough room for more than one or two to get changed without blocking the entrance to the toilets.
Taking a class of children there with usually 2 adults (unless any child needs an additional 1-2-1) was easy enough. One adult walks through and checks cubicles are empty, assigns children (some kids prefer 2 in one large, some prefer their own smaller one), other adult stands at the back (leaving a few cubicles for public) but doesn't allow anyone into the rows of cubicles (walkway down middle with rows of cubicles coming off IYSWIM). First adult stands at the other end and children queue once changed, ready for their pre-swim shower. Same with showers, adult checks shower rooms then stands at door (only one way in/out.) I think they've been built great and it really works easily with just 2 adults.

Can't go with her to supervise as I work (off shortly).

No members of the public use it, they are lucky enough to have their own swimming pool at the school.

So glad I posted on here I actually never know about those towels with poppers / poncho style! Thank you all so much! That would sort it I reckon (or at least be a reasonable compromise I think she would be happy with) I will get onto Amazon now and hope today's lesson doesn't cause too much tension at school.

And for those asking what I 'expect' the school to do I really didn't know which is why I asked on here. I feel for them, budget cuts, supervising loads of kids etc etc and don't want to be a nuisance. Equally, I want to empower my kids to say 'nope, don't feel comfortable with that, not going to do it' in the face of any pressure regarding what they do with their bodies (within reason, no dipping out of P.E.!

Thanks all, off to look on Amazon now

I agree OP, I really do, but the reality is (and I say this as someone who has taken classes swimming) it would be almost impossible to organise or (loosely) supervise children getting dressed in a timely fashion in separate cubicles which are spread all around the changing area. You would also have to find coins and lockers (which would them get lost) as you can't just lock the entire group changing room. It honestly would stop most schools going.
If you feel v strongly about it either a) go with them so you can supervise your daughter and if that isn't possible b) ask for her not to go and take her another time swimming.
The other alternative is for your daughter to change under a towel, which is what most slightly older children do.

#never 'knew' about the towels #

Home and school are two different environments.

That's not really the point though. The right to not strip naked in front of other people is absolutely fundamental in my view.

Sorry, just seen your update.

This is a difficult issue for the school really.
They're not purposely trying to make your daughter unhappy; they have to put safety first.

I'm a teacher and take my class swimming (aged 10 and 11) I always go in the changing room with the girls and we all stay together in the communal part of the changing rooms as I couldnt watch all 15 of them if they wandered off to the cubicles.

We go to public baths so there are usuallu other women in there. Some woman do just walk around totally naked in front of the girls which does sometimes make them a bit giggly but I've never once had an issue with a girl not wanting to get changed with her friends.

Some are more modest than others and cover up with a towel/ hooded towel style thing which is fine. I'm not sure how secondary schools work now but I think she'll have communal changing rooms for pe there too.

I do feel her pain, I used to hate pe in secondary school after being forced to shower naked. Maybe get her a nice big towel poncho and she could cover up with that x

At high school we were suddenly informed that we would have to shower after pe. So as a teen that as an absolute horror!

We used to put a swim suit on (under a towel) to shower!! Took forever and teachers weren't happy as we were always late for next class but no way were we going naked!!

I sent a note asking for DD (9) to be allowed to change apart from the other girls due to “women’s issues”.

I didn’t clarify that it women’s issues mean a) having her period some of the time, and b) being self conscious that her very well developed bosom makes the other girls laugh.

Treaclesoda so what's the answer?

Raven it's not impacting ME and it's my DD that says she hates it. It IS a private pool.

Told her to tell a teacher how she feels as that's what the school taught her two months ago about feeling uncomfortable in situations. Perhaps the teacher might be a little sympathetic and if lots of kids did this they might rethink the policy of changing when kids reach year 4/5?

My eldest never had any 'safeguarding issues' getting changed. His school has cubicles and they also used private cubicles when they went public swimming pools (different school) so it can't be law, just individual school choice.

Anyway, just ordered the solution as suggested by other posters so cheers everyone else.

I know that at primary school when we had to get changed in the communal changing room there was a lot of bullying of girls who had started to develop breasts or hair. Snatching away their towels etc. If everyone was allowed privacy it wouldn't happen.

I know a friend's 10 year old has had similar problems in the past few months so it's not just a problem that happened in the bad old days.

My kids all have a changing towel. They work well on the beach too.

Treaclesoda so what's the answer?

The answer is allowing them to use cubicles. That's what happens when my daughter goes swimming with school in the public pool.

Fwiw, I think you should mention it to the school, in the very reasonable way that you have here.

I don't think there are any easy solutions but as attitudes towards privacy and consent change they may come across this with other children. They might want to think about whether they address this with pupils in PSHE and consent lessons, whether to mention the popper towels as an option on a swimming letter or whether to look at changing facilities in the long term.

Pp are right that there are logistical issues that aren't the school's fault but your daughter is also right that teaching about consent means following through in everyday situations, overwise the lessons are meaningless.

As swimming is probably something that had been done the same way for years, they may not have thought about it in that way, so making them aware seems beneficial.

Well, it is impacting on you if it upsets you as well. As a teacher, thinking about the setup of our local pools I would not be able to or willing to supervise all the children in cubicles - I'd simply refuse as I wouldn't feel comfortable with the level of security. It's different if it's a private pool.

And yes, there can be child protection worries for teachers. Other adults in changing, children wandering off, messing or bullying in cubicles, running and slipping on damp ground. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. I can think of a previous school I worked in where that would have been a huge worry.

If a parent came to me under those circumstances, I'd be sympathetic to the child but there's really not a lot I can do about it, it's on the parent.

Anyway, good that you've found a solution.

Poncho towel your friend in this situation

There's an art to getting undressed in school changing rooms. We all had to wear skirts and I imagine it's a bit more difficult with trousers. I've taught my Y4 daughter how to do it too and she's now an expert.

Shoes, knickers and tights off, leave skirt on. Pull up swimming costume to waist. Keep top on but remove arms from sleeves, pull swimming costume arms on. Remove skirt and shirt and voila, ready for swimming without an iota of being totally undressed at any time.

If I had trousers on I would have probably used my towel as a skirt.

It's not hard and I totally understand why a school wouldn't want children in cubicles. I also understand the need for privacy but the two aren't mutually exclusive. We had communal changing rooms until 5th form and I was never at all naked in front of my friends.

Communal changing isn't so students can watch each other undress, it's for safeguarding. Private changing gives rise to lots of issues

Assuming the school doesn't have its own swimming pool it can't choose the changing arrangements at its local pool. Many have cubicles only, some have communal changing rooms. It depends where you go.

Are you trying to say that schools will not undertake lessons if no communal changing rooms are available? Because it's not true. We have a newish leisure centre and the whole changing village is made of up cubicles. There is school swimming there every morning.

but as an adult, when I go to my gym or for a swim, there are no private changing cubicles. I don't have the option of changing in private as an adult.
The option I have is not to swim or go to the gym, so your only real option is to withdraw the child from swimming.

I do wonder if you have pressed a little hard on the modesty and privacy front though, aren't you worried that she has a problem with her body if she feels such a need to hide it already, at nine?

Can she practice changing under a towel at home so she feels more comfortable doing it at school?

I think you are being U actually.

Life is a fuck of a lot easier if you don't really get hung up about getting changed in front of other people. In so many situations there won't be cubicles (or there will only be 1 or 2) and its much easier just to get on with things.

Why do you get changed into your cossie in a cubicle? Because you do have hang ups/ issues clearly... otherwise you would just use the communal changing!