Man asked for kiss from my four year old daughter

[thickgit]

So, we were at the fair/fireworks this evening and my daughter was having turns on the giant inflatable slide. The man running it was about 75 I would say, and kept asking my daughter for a high five when she reached the bottom. When her goes were finished he bent down and pointed to his cheek, asking for her to give him a kiss. Thankfully, I was close enough to be able to step in and said no, no kissing thank you.
My daughter asked why not. That was tricky. The first thing that came out of my mouth was 'we don't kiss people we don't know' then I said 'only mummy, daddy and brother' . My daughter replied 'but I kiss Pamela' (girl in her class, not real name). I said that was okay.
Gosh, it's so tricky to get this stuff right! I appreciate any advice on what to say to my daughter to help keep her safe, that is age appropriate and that won't scare or confuse her
I'd also like your opinion on the scenario. I'm glad I stopped her kissing him. When the firework display started I went up to the man and said "you are out of order asking little girls for kisses, that's not on, I'm going to report you" He said nothing apart from Okay and he looked sheepish. This may have been one hundred percent innocent. . . Little old man who genuinely adores children.
Did I over react in your opinion? What would you have done in this situation?

This is so extreme. Kissing is definitely not always sexual. Try telling that to the old men in rural France who still greet one another with ‘deux bises’, a kiss on either cheek.

And no one has said that. You are talking about adults both agreeing to and being comfortable with it. That is a completely different situation.

For what it is worth adult females pestering for kisses from children are no more excusable.

@LassWiTheDelicateAir

The way you avoid answering specifics and posting in as aggressive a way as possible makes me think you are just on a wind up. If I'm wrong and the point you want to make is this...

"More likely he is simply part of the large category of people who seem to think foisting kisses on , or demanding kisses from, people under a certain age is fine, whether or not the person wants to be kissed/give kisses."

..then I finally understand and agree; but perhaps you will come across better if you are less confrontational and absolute in the way you post.

"Kissing is definitely not always sexual. ......And no one has said that."

Actually someone did, while agreeing with you. It seemed like that was what you were saying.

"And no one has said that."

Yes they have. Stillpissingdown said "Kissing is and will always have a sexual connection whether you want to admit it or not."

All sorts of things can have a sexual connotation or can be completely platonic.

The problem is that people can be quite crafty about doing something sexual under the guise of it being something normal and platonic, helped by people insisting that kissing a child is totally normal and never ever sexual.

It can be, and I do think we need to face up to the fact that perfectly normal things we do, as loving parents, can be sexualised. I get it's not a nice thought, but this true.

Ink,

But what is the solution? Making adults totally unable to interact naturally with children in the offchance it may be sexual.

These days, in primary schools, teachers are very careful about picking up small children for a cuddle if they fall over/ are upset etc. I think most would see that as a good thing but I don’t think the kids do. They just look bewildered as if no one cares.

You can make a totally sanitised society but there is a cost.

The way you avoid answering specifics and posting in as aggressive a way as possible makes me think you are just on a wind up

How precious. You are not the only person on this thread and I am not obliged to reply to your specific demands.

But what specifics? If you mean is kissing always sexual. No, I never said so.

However unwanted physical contact is unwanted physical contact. If your daughters want to kiss you they can make their own minds up to do so.

There is nothing natural about kissing children you don't know well.

"I wonder how many people on here are sending their children to scouts and Brownies. Now that I would be careful of. These organisations are practically run by the local peado squad."

I think you are several decades out of date. Anyone working with children, even in a voluntary capacity, must go through Disclosure (post party brain has lost the name of the current government agency doing this). Having been a Cub Scout leader as well as a cadet instructor in the past, these organisations are extremely conscious of safeguarding - I had to run out of my cadet safeguarding course when the extremely detailed description of emotional abuse brought flashbacks. The cadet command course again goes into safeguarding in great detail as well as emphasising the immediate action of believing the child and contacting the police to do any questioning after an allegation is made.

"How precious. You are not the only person on this thread and I am not obliged to reply to your specific demands."

Again, if you can't express yourself without being rude, you have a problem.

You were literally replying to my posts. You quoted bits of them. You initially said that no adults should ever ask a child for a kiss, then finally clarified (I think) that you were only talking about people removing children's agency over their own bodies.

"If your daughters want to kiss you they can make their own minds up to do so."

I know. I said that in my PP.

I am not several decades behind. Anyone can really pass those police checks unless they have been reported for previous offenses. They may take safeguarding seriously, but these people get around anything to get access to children.
The old man at your local fair is the least of your worries. Your child is more likely to be abused by their own relative or people they are close to. Keep an eye on the scout leader or child's uncle if you want ti keep your child safe.

No.princess you quite simply cannot guess the hierarchy of risk and speculate that male at the fair is least of her worries because actually it’s scouts/brownies. That’s just hyperbole

Point is,parenting is about assessment and awareness of risks and taking appropriate actions. Some actions are preemptive eg a cautionary warning. Now the emphasis isn’t in stranger danger, as you correctly say a perpetrator may not be a stranger. The emphasis is on telling,consent and speaking out

Point is,parenting is about assessment and awareness of risks and taking appropriate actions.

I totally agree with this. And I stand by my earlier comment that cultural norms do come into this, as they influence your assessment of any given situation. For example, last time we were in Italy, a group of youngsters (mixed group, probably early 20s) took a real shine to my DD when we were on the plane. At the baggage collection, as they were leaving, one of the young men picked her up, swung her round and gave her a big kiss. She squealed in delight and waved goodbye. I commented to my DH that no English young man would ever have done that. There was nothing remotely sexual about it as far as I was concerned; he was playing with a child. And in that culture, that is acceptable. And I know that. And I know he knows that. So, yes, I did probably see that in a different light - and make a different assessment of risk - from that I’d have made had it been a young English man doing the same thing. Because our culture is different. And I know that he would know that.

If your daughters want to kiss you they can make their own minds up to do so."

I know. I said that in my PP

But you ask them for a kiss. Why? If they wanted to they would need to wait until you ask.

I don’t think you overreacted OP and I would feel and do the same. What if he does this all the time and nobody reports him because ‘it’s not a crime’ It’s inappropriate behaviour and if somehow he’s not aware of this, he should be told. Best case scenario, he’s a naive and innocent old guy, but he still needs to know not do this.

And PPs saying somehow the fact that he won’t see this particular child again makes this ok - how does that work? Firstly, he might see her again, at another event or whatever. Secondly, even if he doesn’t see her, he doesn’t exist in a vacuum, he will come into regular contact with some other children.

Imagine he does get a child to kiss him, and another child witnesses it and feels more pressured to kiss him too as it’s ok because the other little girl did it, and then a child who lives next door to the old guy sees other children kissing him, and so on and so on.