Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Man asked for kiss from my four year old daughter

215 replies

thickgit · 28/10/2017 22:22

So, we were at the fair/fireworks this evening and my daughter was having turns on the giant inflatable slide. The man running it was about 75 I would say, and kept asking my daughter for a high five when she reached the bottom. When her goes were finished he bent down and pointed to his cheek, asking for her to give him a kiss. Thankfully, I was close enough to be able to step in and said no, no kissing thank you.
My daughter asked why not. That was tricky. The first thing that came out of my mouth was 'we don't kiss people we don't know' then I said 'only mummy, daddy and brother' . My daughter replied 'but I kiss Pamela' (girl in her class, not real name). I said that was okay.
Gosh, it's so tricky to get this stuff right! I appreciate any advice on what to say to my daughter to help keep her safe, that is age appropriate and that won't scare or confuse her
I'd also like your opinion on the scenario. I'm glad I stopped her kissing him. When the firework display started I went up to the man and said "you are out of order asking little girls for kisses, that's not on, I'm going to report you" He said nothing apart from Okay and he looked sheepish. This may have been one hundred percent innocent. . . Little old man who genuinely adores children.
Did I over react in your opinion? What would you have done in this situation?

OP posts:
Viviennemary · 29/10/2017 00:16

This man was out of order. You handled it well I think. I would have been annoyed but wouldn't think to report it to the police.

Skarossinkplunger · 29/10/2017 00:18

I agree, Tea does sound like a survivor who’s previous trauma has clouded her judgement in a can’t see the wood for the trees way.

DonkeyOil · 29/10/2017 00:19

Yes, I do see your point Certain. Let's hope for a future where everyone's autonomy is respected, regardless! Smile

Seeingadistance · 29/10/2017 00:19

As another survivor, I'd suggest that we actually are able to see both wood and trees very well.

LipstickHandbagCoffee · 29/10/2017 00:20

Maybe don’t speculate about another poster motives for posting.

Battleax · 29/10/2017 00:21

She's told us her motives lipstick. I'm just commenting that the fervour is understandable.

Skarossinkplunger · 29/10/2017 00:21

Fuck it. Can’t say anything right here. Good night.

cherish123 · 29/10/2017 00:23

You did the right thing. He could be a weirdo but equally he could be someone who is out of tough with modern expectations and etiquette.

RebeccaWrongDaily · 29/10/2017 00:45

who arranged the event? Licensed it? I know that travelling fairs are immune in lots of cases from any kind of registration, exactly the kind of seasonal work i'd be able to pick up straight out of clink. transient, move on. no record.

Be3Al2Si6O18 · 29/10/2017 00:49

Seeingadistance @ 00:19

Absolutely right.

Leamington99 · 29/10/2017 00:55

Reading the op I think you handled it perfectly tbh, I don’t think he was being ‘sweet’ as you’ve never met him before - a goodbye hi five okay, but not a kiss!

Nofunkingworriesmate · 29/10/2017 01:02

The police would be interested and would have word with him about appropriate contact with kids, so would the owner of the fairground. the fact he was sheepish tells me he knows he was being inappropriate
children should never be pressured to give adults physical contact just to be polite
Lots of children go on to be abused by "that man I met from the fair ground who I had to kiss so I don't upset the nice old man "
Kids should be empowered to feel it's ok to say no any physical contact

Carouselfish · 29/10/2017 01:28

I don't think it's anything to report, or threaten to report, but then I've had an experience on the other side. Past boyfriend in my twenties had great new camera for 22nd birthday. Next pretty, winter morning, he steps outside into the street and takes a couple of photos, playing with the settings. Later that afternoon the police are at the door. At the bottom of the road had been some kids on their way to school passing by. They'd gone in to school talking about some guy talking photos, it all got whipped up, they told their parents, police were called. We had an angry dad banging on the door that evening. The photos were shown to him (fwiw the passing children were very far away and obviously not the subject of the photo, but fair enough, they couldn't have known that) and then happily deleted, but the idea that the world had become a somewhat hysterical, paranoid place really came down on us. I have a young daughter now and I understand the fear and certainly believe online access and media discussion have probably increased the amount of paedos in the world, but I also don't automatically just jump to the worst conclusion. In your situation, I might have said, 'no, she can't go round kissing people she doesn't know, thanks.' with an, 'are you serious?!?' facial expression. That's about it.

LipstickHandbagCoffee · 29/10/2017 01:36

You’re conflating two unrelated events, 1.op post and 2. Your bf with a camera
Op event involved direct contact with a child and a request
Your bf event was use of a camera,and police queried the photos

Can’t you see the school kids were right to tell school they’d seen adult with camera taking photos. The kids couldn’t have known the motive or content but it’s right they reported it. That’s not wrong,that’s right to report anything potentially untoward

The op is discussing an adult working with kids,who asked a child for a kiss. Wholly inappropriate. Op right to report

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 29/10/2017 01:40

Of course you should do the "stranger danger"

It has nothing to do with "stranger danger". Close male relatives should not be asking for kisses either.

Italiangreyhound · 29/10/2017 01:43

thickgit you aced correctly, what you did with dd, what you said to the man and your desire to report it, all correct.

What to say to dd? as someone else said earlier "Kiss and hug people we know and love, close family and friends. We don't kiss or hug strangers or people who ask for a kiss. People we do not know may be nice or nasty, we just don't know, so they don't get to hug or kiss us, take our photo or know personal details about us. While you are little mum/dad/family look out for you but sometimes you will be making your own choices and you don't need to hug or kiss anyone you do not want to." Words to that affect.

Thanks
TammyswansonTwo · 29/10/2017 02:19

And there we are. A bunch of people of MN demonstrate quickly and easily how paedophiles get away with it for so long, not to mention how women have their confidence in the importance of their consent eroded from the earliest age. Don't make a fuss, don't overreact, it was just innocent, don't tell the police.... FFS. If people actually reported the minor incidents that happen, actual paedophiles would be a) far more scared of acting on their impulses and b) stopped in their tracks as complaints mounted.

Was this guy a paedophile? I have no idea, but anyone who thinks it's reasonable for a stranger to ask a small child for kisses, especially someone who works with kids constantly, needs to have a serious think about their attitude. Why would someone be so compelled to ask for something so risky in public, with parents in earshot?

Honestly I despair. No wonder child abuse stats are so high.

CatsRidingRollercoasters · 29/10/2017 06:43

OP - I think you handled it perfectly. I'm glad you're going to follow through and report the incident, especially as you told him you would. It may be that the police don't follow it up with him, but who knows? If there's now no come back for him, it might give him more confidence to do something awful.

Ovaries - my blood ran cold reading your posts. Thank god you were able to protect your dd but what a nightmare you must have had. Wish you all the best.

MagicMoneyTree · 29/10/2017 06:59

My only objection is to the people saying it’s wrong for old men to kiss little girls. So little boys are fair game then? I don’t think so.

larrygrylls · 29/10/2017 07:01

Lass,

‘Close male relatives should not be asking for kisses’.

Are you serious? On the cheek? Why on earth not? Is it ok for female relatives then?

I normally find your posts sensible and balanced but this one is both sexist and a little hysterical.

These threads make me feel very old (only early 50s). It is funny to see us going back at least 100 years in certain ways and thinking we are being very avant garde.

Social kissing (on the cheek or the hand) is not sexual kissing. It is no more sexual than a fist bump. But, for some reason, one is considered scary and the other not. I think some people are germ phobic and a little snobby and are disguising their reaction as child protection (‘omg, my precious daughter could catch anything from that grubby pikey’....but they self censor and turn it into ‘omg, he could be a paedo’).

Certainly, in this day and age, the man was unwise to ask for a kiss, although he asked, did not force, so has nothing to do with body autonomy. However, if the police were interested in a request for a kiss on the cheek in public, I would be astonished.

The funny thing is that when people go for their holidays in Italy and Spain where men openly hug and kiss young children, they are thought of as charming, child-friendly and definitely non threatening. I wonder why that is...

Inkandbone · 29/10/2017 07:03

Ska, I do think you are very, very wrong on this and if i am to be totally candid it does make me wonder if you are being entirely forthcoming about your profession.

The mantra with child abuse is that if you think it, report it. That obviously isn't just sexual abuse and conceded, in your field it would apply more to concerns about abuse taking place within a familial setting.

However, and this is true of all crimes, not just child sexual abuse, so many people get away with it because of this mantra - that oh, there's no point, nothing actually happened, he was probably just lonely / liked kids / she reminded him of his granddaughter.

None of that is really the point. If we return to the land of facts, we KNOW that sexual abusers are more likely to take jobs where they have access to children. We KNOW that those in jail right now for some of the most horrific crimes the country has seen have barely had the surface scratched on what they 'actually did. And they are just the ones in jail. Thousands more have been touching and kissing little girls for years, occasionally perhaps a bit more, but managing to stay under the radar.

When someone reports someone, chances are the police can't really do anything. When ten people report something - if ten parents contacted the police and said "look, my children were playing on a slide last night and a man kept approaching them and asking them for hugs and kisses," it creates a picture they CAN do something with.

To put it another way, if a teacher reports that a child wrote a story where their step dad hit them, a neighbour reports hearing raised voices and crying, a family friend reports the child refusing to go home after a playdate, a football coach reports bruises - that, all put together, creates an obvious jigsaw.

Grooming has become a but of a buzz word lately. It's really the frog in hot water analogy. A groomer very slowly and carefully pushes his boundaries when it's one individual, but you can groom a child to accept sexual coercion in small ways starting from a young age, starting with demanding kisses in return for favours Sad

claraschu · 29/10/2017 07:06

About 90% of abused children are abused by someone they know, most often a family member or family friend. I don't think this situation sounds dangerous or creepy (saying goodbye to someone she will never see again, mum standing there, little girl comfortable with the fairground man); this sounds more like a difference in culture, but of course I could easily be wrong.

Travelling in Sicily or Argentina people are tactile with children and I never felt it was inappropriate. I was glad that my kids didn't feel uncomfortable when kind people we had just met would say goodbye with a peck on the cheek.

CatsRidingRollercoasters · 29/10/2017 07:09

My only objection is to the people saying it’s wrong for old men to kiss little girls. So little boys are fair game then? I don’t think so.

How ridiculous. No one has said or implied this. It's just that the child in the op is a girl.

FenceSitter01 · 29/10/2017 07:16

One encounter IS NOT grooming. People hear a word and run with it without understanding what it means.

What I am surprised is that no one has brought race and culture into it. Fairs are predominantly run by travellers and gyspies.

Skarossinkplunger · 29/10/2017 07:18

Inkandbone what do you think I’m “very, very wrong” about? The fact that this does not fall into the category of grooming? Or the fact that no crime has been committed? Because they are the points I have made.

I have not once said that this was appropriate behaviour.

Swipe left for the next trending thread