To think some children ARE just naughty?

[Dancingfairy]

I'm sick of every time a child is naughty people say they "probably have autism" my daughter has autism and isn't badly behaved at all, (violent etc) is it just me who notices this?! Naughty behaviour doesn't equal autism, just frustrated with it getting a bad name! Aibu in thinking some children ARE just naughty?

I have 2 dc's with autism, the amount of people that come up to me and ask me if my child is violent. Both my dc's are not violent and are not naughty, I can take them to most places and they behave really well, if they are naughty they get punished, if they are having a meltdown or sensory overload then I remove them from the situation (we go home or go and sit somewhere quite).

I do think some kids are just naughty and haven't been diceplined, some kids haven't been taught how to respect others. Autism should not be used as excuse for naughty behaviour and people shouldn't assume a child that's playing up has autism or ADHD.

YES!!

My DS has autism, he has manners and is well behaved.

I know some people who were shits as kids, and became (and stayed) shits as adults...

The only reason it is so fashionable is because you get benefits if your child is classed as disabled or something and that was the schools thinking as to.why they kept insisting he had a condition.

BlahBlahBoo. Five long heartbreaking years I fought for my DS to get support, I did parenting course after parenting course, I sat in CAF meetings, I sat in endless CAMHs assessments where my child would tell the workers he wants to hurt himself, and worse, in detail, and when asked why, he would reply "because I know people find me annoying". He was diagnosed this year by the very doctor who refused to entertain the idea in the first place.

Do you know how much money in the years I've fought for my DS I've claimed for him?

Zero.

It might serve you well not to be so fucking judgemental in the future.

like to scream rape

Rape is rape. FFS

Hmm, I have 2 dc with ASD, one very violent (HFA female) and one who is quite placid.

I also sometimes suggest ASD to people here, esp if they are female. But tbh, I'd only suggest it if I could see behaviours consistent with the triad of impairments. And then I'd usually suggest a poster look at the triad of impairments and see if it helps.

If not for MN, I'd never have had the courage to consistently fight against professionals to prove dd has ASD. At 'my' cahms, they say that it's a typical pattern - girls come with 'issues' and it's usually that they are autistic, but we are not as skilled at looking for ASD.

To the poster suggesting that you'd go after a diagnosis for money, it's one of the most offensive and stupid things I've heard. I'd give the money back to have a happy, fulfilled little 9 yo girl. I feel mentally exhausted handling her, traumatised by seeing her many attempts at trying to hurt herself. Previously, I was a high-rate earner, and I'd much prefer to work a couple of hours a week with a happy family that live with what we have now. I feel constantly on edge with dd, and most importantly, she is just not a happy girl.

I have a DS with ASD. When he was younger he was placid and compliant. He lived in his own little world really.
As a pre/teen he has been very challenging but never 'naughty' He is hyper aware of what people think off him.

I witness a child being incredibly naughty this afternoon. They go to the same club as my DCs. I have had to listen to this kid for months. I have watched the indulgence from their parents and grand parents every week. This kid is rude, aggressive and unpleasant to other children.
They outshone themselves this afternoon and behaved in a way I have yet to see a kid with ASD achieve. Keeping in mind that I have worked with kids with SEND for decades.
The child did something very unpleasant to another child. I listened as the parent tried to find out if the other (smaller) child 'did something first' and try make it into a 'both as bad as each other' scenario.
All the time their child was screaming nastiness at the parent and refusing to do as they were (feebly told).
Yet when unrelated adults needed to get past the kid a quick, firm instruction was enough to get them to move and stop behaving so appallingly.

I honestly, rarely judge someone else's parenting. I know how hard it can be. But fgs I have watched this kid get away with utter murder for months and now some poor little child was suffering because of their behaviour.

I am sure the parents were mortified but wtf do they think will come of their inability to control their NT child?

It's not just the link though I see it all the time. That just wound me up more today as it's getting to the point autism is getting a bad name.

What do u mean it's getting a bad name?

If you have a child with ASD then you are aware or the adage, "if you've met one child with autism, you've met one child with autism".

There are five children in DSs class who have the same dx as him, ASD&ADHD, all five or them have different needs. One of them will beat the shit out of anything with a pulse every time they piss them off, another looks quite and reserved when really they're just extremely anxious.

Yes BTW I agree that sometimes breaking the rules is fun, but that's still a reason - a child is behaving in a certain way for fun.

I think perspectives are changing and so it's no longer acceptable to many people to name things as "naughty", it's really a meaningless description, because it doesn't differentiate between breaking a pointless rule which doesn't hurt anyone or anything, and perhaps should be challenged, I mean some rules are actively unfair - or something which could be catastrophic like extreme violence or reckless behaviour which could result in death.

It is far more useful IMO to look at why a behaviour is unacceptable than simply to label it "naughty". It's not very constructive.

And yes some children with autism will have more challenging behaviour than others, it's a massive scale of how it manifests, it's not fair to treat all children with autism as though they are the same.

I don't think anyone IS just naughty.

I think some kids' behaviour is more often than not bad but that there's always a reason for it, be that SN, lack of discipline, unsettled homelife or anything else.

If you say some kids are just naughty you're depriving them of the chance to behave well.

Mind you I don't think people are 'born evil' either, which a lot on here do seem to believe.

I think all children are 'naughty' for a reason - they are not inherently 'bad'. But often that reason is lack of discipline from parents.

My DD is a prime example of a child who would probably be quite badly behaved if we hadn't worked really really hard at boundaries and consistency during the very important toddler years. I watch some parents in my kids classes and they let their children get away with so much. Crap parenting really.

Just sick of my daughter being put in the same category as children like this.

Wow. Just wow.

This is what bemuses me with parents. It's the top trumps thing. 'well my kid doesn't behave like that and they have autism so if someone behaved differently it can't be autism'.

I can forgive that nonsense from people who have no experience of autism whatsoever but not from.people who should know better. Autism is on a huge spectrum, I don't go around thinking the kid who lashes out doesn't have autism just because another child in the class doesn't have the same issues.

To the poster suggesting that you'd go after a diagnosis for money, it's one of the most offensive and stupid things I've heard

I know, its bollocks isn't it? I can only work part time because of DS's issues. I have to replace his bedroom furniture yearly and we are on first name terms with the glazier. Not to mention he will be at home, dependant on us for ever.

My DM was gossiping about a service user of my DB's once. How the parents didn't want him to leave home because they would 'lose all his money'. Both parents were unable to work because this was an adult child who needed one to one 24 hours a day.
So 'all his money' must have meant income support, one lot of carers allowance and his DLA. As opposed to two full time salaries and pensions on retirement.

Three adults living on Income support and carers (which will be deducted) and their adult son's DLA (which is not meant for living expenses).

The thing that pisses me off is that the facts are out there. You can find out what people can claim but people insist on ignoring the facts in favour of the fantasy.

wankers.

daily I've had it in rl about both dd and I. Both of us are high achievers and find maths easy. Organised and logical and have very fixed opinions on some things. So surface similarities to the uninformed stereotype of autism.

We also have different eating habits. Both of us find some food combinations and textures unappetising, so much so that we'd need to be seriously starving to touch them. And don't have a sweet tooth. Obviously like anyone these were more pronounced as a toddler. So someone would try and get dd to eat eg ketchup and chips and ice cream as a treat when dd wanted plain pasta as a treat. So people would suggest she was on the spectrum. She never found food stressful, just didn't like some things and therefore wouldn't eat them like any toddler.

Obviously nobody with any knowledge of autism ever suggested it. She was an early talker and always had cold anger rather than the usual toddler screaming tantrums, I can only imagine that if she had been a late talker and unable to say 'no thank you I don't like that' and instead had had a typical toddler tantrum then the armchair experts would have been more than hinting at autism.

It's so naive to think children are always good and kind unless there's some kind of trauma in their lives. I get that it's nice to believe, but it's patently untrue.

Sometimes children are manipulative because it feels good to have power over others or get them to do what you want.

Sometimes children bully because they want to be top dog.

Sometimes children are mean because it amuses them to see someone else humiliated, or because it makes them feel powerful.

It doesn't mean they're evil, and nor does it mean they have a bad home life or have suffered abuse. It's human nature.

Yep, some children are definitely just naughty, and some are autistic, the two are sometimes linked but not always.

My brother is autistic and yet was a proper teachers pet at school, similarly the little autistic lad I'm working with at the moment is not naughty, his meltdowns aren't violent or sweary and if I wasn't working with him he wouldn't disrupt the class, he'd just sit and stare at whatever happened to be in front of him, I do have to ask him to do anything several times, often in a few different ways, but even then he's not being disobedient, he just hasn't got a clue what people are saying half the time.

Whereas I also have in that class a child who answers back constantly and does as he pleases then has violent tantrums when told off, I spoke to his mum about his behaviour (after he had punched me) and he burst into tears because he didn't want me to tell on him, she shouted at me, in front of him, for making him cry and told him he didn't have to listen to me. That's not autism, that's bad parenting.

Lurkedforever1 That's interesting! I suppose, on the bright side, it's good that the general public is becoming more aware of autism and other neuro-diverse states. Even if they often get it very wrong.

Well yeah, DailyMailReadersAreThick because they are just human.

But I don't think people are inherently bad either. I think they do bad things, for reasons. And good things, for other reasons. Our job as adults is to manipulate them into doing the good, obedient things

like to scream rape

For Fuxache.

I thought @MNHQ #ThisIsMyChild campaign was a brilliant thing to do to explain how children with SENs come in all shapes and sizes, for want of a better word.

Shame it seems completely ignored by some though.

I too agree that breaking some rules is fun as well so long as it doesn't impact negatively on anyone else. They usually were small one's and it was a positive means of communication, because my son and I would share the joke, that was usually on me but never nasty.

YNBU in thinking some children ARE just naughty.

YABU in being sick of some being lumped on the same category as your daughter. It is a huge spectrum. They are going to be.

But what age group are you saying this when you say children?

And what is the distinction between naughty and nasty? I think there is a clear distinction.

I know, its bollocks isn't it? I can only work part time because of DS's issues. I have to replace his bedroom furniture yearly and we are on first name terms with the glazier. Not to mention he will be at home, dependant on us for ever.

Completely TheFirstMrsDV. I often conclude that people who think this have very little experience of it.

Lucky you dancing but some of us do have children with autism who do get labeled “naughty” and frankly comments like your don’t fucking help, you have one child with autism I have two and they are very different one is challenging and the other isn’t they are both autistic.

daily I suppose in a way it is, but if on the other hand she'd perhaps not been nt and had a different sn, and a different parent, I could have spent years trying to parent her as though she had autism, making the real sn worse with the best intentions and pursuing a dx of autism which no expert would give. And meantime the real sn would remain undiagnosed.

I did have a false autism dx as a child, because on top of the similarities dd shares I also had surface similarities that were the direct result of my home life, and another issue that wasn't a dx then. And of course back then nice mc parents couldn't possibly be abusive, so money and appearance bought an excuse. Now it's the other way and parents of autistic cd that have the traits I shared on the surface are sometimes accused of being refrigerator parents.