To think some children ARE just naughty?

[Dancingfairy]

I'm sick of every time a child is naughty people say they "probably have autism" my daughter has autism and isn't badly behaved at all, (violent etc) is it just me who notices this?! Naughty behaviour doesn't equal autism, just frustrated with it getting a bad name! Aibu in thinking some children ARE just naughty?

I agree. I think it has a lot to do with parenting. My dd would be a right little shit without good boundaries. She’s wilful, headstrong, not afraid to answer back, has bountiful energy and can be very demanding. In many ways, she’s very similar to a boy in her class, who’s mother has overindulged him and not instilled good manners. He’s a disaster waiting to happen. Yr5 btw so it’s going to get a lost worse.

I had him on the last play date I will ever take him on almost a year ago. Someone I don’t know well asked me why on Earth I would have him over. 😂 He was constantly rude, told me something was none of my business and cited a rhyme with the eff word and bitch in it. He came over to speak to my dd and friend after school and was really rude to the other mum. He does stand out in dds School as he’s one of very few children like it there. My friend is teacher training and she tells me a lot of children are like it in some of the schools she’s placed in.

And as a pp said, some children are like this through neglect.

Yes yes yes this x1000 op. My ds is HFA and wherever we go people are always commenting on his exceptional manners and calm behaviourwith adults.
His issues are primarily sensory and social, the biggest cause of any rare meltdowns at school are NT children who get enjoyment out of aggravating him by poking him (he cant stand unwanted physical contact) or egging him on to repeat inappropriate words.
My ds was recently moved to a new table precisely to get him away from a boy doing exactly this, whose mum has in my hearing complained about sen kids being a disruption in class 🙄

There's a child down the road who shouts abuse at all the other kids who go past his house. His parents aren't any better in what I've seen of them

I have 1 dc with ASD and another on the pathway and neither of them or my NT dc would ever think to talk to anyone the way he does.
However we did just have a meltdown over cereal which would make anyone who didn't know us think he was a right spoiled little so and so.

WishingOnABar my son has autism and his experiences of school were very similar, right down to some of the parents of the kids who were cruel bullies complaining about kids with SN. It's one of the many reasons I currently home educate.

My DS has autism and he was naughty. The two aren't mutually exclusive. He was very hard work as a child. We went over the same ground again and again and again. He is 22 now and a pretty decent adult, but I wouldn't want to wish what we went through on anyone.
(And no, the didn't grow out of autism, he just learnt to cope better.)

I kind of agree, but I do think children aren't naughty for no reason.
Perhaps I've read The Explosive Child too many times, but I do agree with its premise that a child who is misbehaving is doing so because they cannot behave in a way that is expected, for whatever reason, and just labelling a child naughty is pointless and unhelpful.

I am also the mother of an autistic son who is very drawn to anti social behaviour, and I often find that I'm told that he isn't autistic, just naughty, mainly because other parents of autistic children haven't experienced a child who is violent, swears frequently, spits etc, so it can't possibly be autism.

The only reason it is so fashionable is because you get benefits if your child is classed as disabled or something
And there we go. Autism is fashionable and benefits all in one sentence.

Bumdishcloths

I couldn't agree with you more!

I agree. A child can't just be naughty it has to have something (even though undiagnosed by any doctor or child health expert) It's sad it is used these days for bad behaviour and poor parental discipline. And some children are naughty. And most children are capable of being naughty at times. Why is naughty now a no-no word.

I agree, plenty of children are just naughty or badly parented. Some have ASD/ADHD/whatever and still choose to misbehaviour - important to look at the behaviour and not assume it can be attributed to their diagnosis...

From an educational perspective though, it is good to look at what else might be causing the behaviour, as often SEN or impact of abuse/neglect/trauma/poor attachment mean that kids just isn’t respond to usual behaviour modification strategies/rewards and sanctions and you need to try something else (ie. tried and tested strategies for what works with the ‘difference’).

I used to work with teenagers with severe disabilities, quite a number of whom had autism. Yes some had meltdowns. So had to deal with 15 year old girls having a screaming tantrum lying on the pavement and refusing to get up. But actually overall they were as well behaved as any child, with the exception of one teenager who had extremely challenging behavior. Some of the teenagers with severe learning difficulties could be tough to manage as they behaved like toddlers, but were taller and stronger than me.

I do think some children are born more wilful or more compliant, and so some need better parenting than others. But also lack of sleep can have a major impact on kids behavior, and some parents do not prioritise their kids sleep.

Also want to acknowledge that all kids are naughty at times. It is natural. But the frequency and degrees are impacted by parenting.

Also, one thing rarely acknowledged here is that being naughty can be fun. I know I did things as a child I was not supposed to, because they were fun. It is not always a sign that there is anything wrong.
So swearing in class when you have a weak teacher who lets you get away with it for example, was fun.

Also, there are some childrenwho are very badly behaved,who when you meet their parents, you realise why. A child whose parents think nothing of abusing strangers or laughing at people with disabilities, is likely to do the same.

Yes WhereTheFuck agree 100% and with the pp who said her child is willful-these chikdren are a challenge and parebts need to be on the ball. The term 'naughty' is simply not helpful, nor is 'good', 'bad' etc.

But most children will be naughty at times because it is fun

Nobody is claiming that all naughty children are naughty because they have autism though! I have taught many very badly behaved kids. Some of them have difficulty because they are autistic or have learning difficulties which make it hard for them to pay attention. But the majority behave badly either because they have problematic home lives, have had to deal with some major trauma or have parents who model bad behaviour at home for various reasons. It's pretty unusual to meet a NT child from a nice, supportive family and no traumatic background who behaves persistently really badly.

My child has autism. We do not receive any benefits. Please can we lay this myth to bed once and for all. Having a child with SN makes our lives much harder, and makes the family much poorer (I'm only able to work part time, and am no longer able to pursue a career). It is not, as some people seem to persist in thinking, a meal ticket to an easy life and free handouts.

My eldest is autistic,violent,badly behaved as a child..better thankfully as an adult..this coloured my view somewhat of autism,to the point I missed it completely in my youngest ,who hasn't a violent bone in his body ,nor hardwork at school...two completely different personalities,but both the same diagnosis..

MaandMand I thought the comment about benefits was about a child who does not have autism, but a parent trying to claim they do have, thinking it is an easy way to increase benefits. They have not got those benefits though.

YANBU. I hate the "hidden disability" too.

Depends on the level of "naughty" I suppose. A little hyperactive, head strong or impulsive, overly curious. Yeah, that could just be the kid. But violent, bullying, aggressive, manipulative, I do tend to think there are either situations at home causing this or mental issues. All the kids I grew up with that were like this, most of them came from bad homes, or were later diagnosed with Autism/ADHD, etc.

Yy brasty, I read your name as bratty! ;)

Also at wanting sn for benefit handouts. Because that's exactly how it works, you just rock up cap in hand and announce your kid has sn and get huge cash payouts.

Or do you perhaps mean more complex sn, where the actual sum of money might seem generous number wise but in reality doesn't come near the actual real costs? Are these parents all sat hoping for complex needs so they can claim a pittance for a difficult, intense 24/7 job?

Does this happen much in the 3D world or do other posters mostly see it on MN?

Never in real life have I heard someone say "Maybe he has special needs" when talking about a kid doing something wrong. Never have I heard "Maybe he's autistic" when talking about a rude adult. But on every MN thread about someone's behaviour, SN will be suggested.

I've suggested autism to posters here before, mainly because the things they're experiencing sound familiar to me.
At the same time though, there are posters adamant that the child cannot be autistic because autistic children don't
If all autistic children behaved in the exact same way it would be much more straightforward, but they don't. When a child doesn't present in a stereotypical way, there are always accusations of poor parenting, and we are told that our child isn't autistic and that we're not,recognising that they're just naughty. There's such a predictable pattern.

All children can be just naughty, but if there is a pattern of certain behaviour, and not just a one off of naughtiness, then there's likely to be something at the root of it, whether it's ASD, ADHD, neglect etc, but I'm very wary to call out poor parenting, because pretty much all parent s of autistic children I know have been told that their parenting is causing their child's difficulties. Long live refrigerator mother theory