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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think some children ARE just naughty?

217 replies

Dancingfairy · 08/10/2017 12:27

I'm sick of every time a child is naughty people say they "probably have autism" my daughter has autism and isn't badly behaved at all, (violent etc) is it just me who notices this?! Naughty behaviour doesn't equal autism, just frustrated with it getting a bad name! Aibu in thinking some children ARE just naughty?

OP posts:
nonamehere · 08/10/2017 13:28

HalloweenStar 'this is one of the reasons I don't like teachers'

What, all teachers? Isn't that rather a sweeping statement? And not a good philosophy to pass on to your children who, like it or not, will have to work with teachers.

catkind · 08/10/2017 13:30

I think it is dangerous to infer that just because some children with autism are capable of consistently good behaviour, all of them must be. Severity and ability to cope vary hugely.

brasty · 08/10/2017 13:31

Meltdowns are different to naughty behavior.
Kids with SN can be and will be naughty too. All children are naughty sometimes.

BlackAmericanoNoSugar · 08/10/2017 13:35

It's true that some children are just naughty, but I do think that it's always worth considering the possibility of some sort of disorder. Not in order to excuse and allow the behaviour, but to have a better mechanism for improving the behaviour. DS is a very non-typical presentation of autism, it really didn't occur to me that he had autism, but when we sought help with his behaviour that was his diagnosis. And it was a huge help in knowing how to manage him and help him improve himself. If he had gone the whole way through primary school being treated as a naughty child, then he probably would have just got angrier and more disconnected from school life.

BewareOfDragons · 08/10/2017 13:35

I can deal with naughty behaviour in children. Some are SEN, some aren't.

What I dislike intensely is how mean some children are. Genuinely nasty to other people. I always think there parents would be shocked to be told how mean their children are at school ... but then I meet them, and so many of them are cliquey, middle-school mentality or involved in one-upsmanship all the time themselves when it comes to their children, and it all makes sense. :/

kingfishergreen · 08/10/2017 13:35

Many children (sometimes) behave badly, and are entirely neurotypical.

Many children are well behaved and have SENs.

Some children have a hard time learning to read/write but are not dyslexic.

Some children find it difficult to concentrate but don't have ADHD.

Many children are clumsy, but don't have dyspraxia.

Maybe there's some over-diagnosis, maybe not, maybe it's unhelpful to label kids, but maybe some kids get the support they need because they've been attributed a label.

The sad thing is when a label is used as a slur or an excuse for a NT kid who happens to be being a bit of a shit that day.

brasty · 08/10/2017 13:36

Yes some kids are very mean.

Elendon · 08/10/2017 13:37

I have often wondered what constitutes naughtiness in a child.

If a child is allowed to roam free in a restaurant it isn't the child who is being naughty but the parents who are being neglectful. Same in a supermarket.

I see children being children in a restaurant and being children in a supermarket. They usually have a responsible adult with them.

Elendon · 08/10/2017 13:38

Can a two/three year old child be mean?

Elendon · 08/10/2017 13:39

I'm the mother of an autistic son who did not ever do restaurants or supermarkets. We didn't go to these places together as a family.

tippz · 08/10/2017 13:40

Definitely agree. @DancingFairy And I am sick of it too. But this thread won't last long. Wink

youarenotkiddingme · 08/10/2017 13:42

Behaviour is always a form of communication.

But yanbu to disagree that it's communicating autism.

My ds has autism and is very well behaved. He can have violent sweary self harming meltdowns though. People can label that as naughty. Yet they label my friends kids (the same age) as strong willed or knowing their own minds for for having a temper tantrum because they don't want to clean room or whatever before going to meet friends.

Elendon · 08/10/2017 13:44

Dancing, that link is a bad link.

I agree in the main. If a seven onward child is being a complete nightmare, especially within school, then something is up and the family need to address the problem. Autism presents much earlier.

turquoise88 · 08/10/2017 13:47

this is one of the reasons I don't like teachers

GrinGrin

Oh, the irony. You should be thanking a teacher for the fact you can even write such drivel.

I really have seen it all now.

BlackAmericanoNoSugar · 08/10/2017 13:48

That's not true Elendon, as I said DS is quite non-typical in his presentation so was a late-ish diagnosis (I think he was about 8 yo). For instance he his hugely extrovert and makes friends easily, and was a very early talker, both not typical.

Original poster
Dancingfairy · 08/10/2017 13:49

It's not just the link though I see it all the time. That just wound me up more today as it's getting to the point autism is getting a bad name.

OP posts:
CloudPerson · 08/10/2017 13:53

"Autism presents much earlier"

It may not be picked up though. I am autistic, as are two (or three) of my children. We didn't spot anything in their younger years as their behaviour was normal for us. Ds1 was 8 when things slowly started to fall apart. Ds2 was 6, but didn't show anything in school until secondary. Ds3 is 6, is fairly obviously autistic to us at home, but is thriving in school, so no-one would consider diagnosing him.
It's very common for autism to apparently appear at life transitions, secondary school is a common one, going from a nurturing environment into a dog eat dog world is a typical time for a child to be unable to cope. Also some children do not present stereotypically, so it can be more difficult to identify more subtle behaviours.

VinIsGroot · 08/10/2017 14:00

Well what a bloody lucky lot you are!!!!! I have one with severe autism ...I've just fucked as a iPad nearly hit Me on the head and one high functioning who if he gets anxious hits out.
Only on Mumsnet did we have competition regarding autistic children!

Elendon · 08/10/2017 14:02

Sorry I'm talking about autism presenting earlier in children who are perceived as naughty say from 2 years (though my son was being assessed at this age).

To me the word naughty is infantile related when discussing behaviour. You wouldn't apply it to an older child, teenager or adult.

Elendon · 08/10/2017 14:05

No one is competing, I'm simply responding to the OP's opener.

What is naughty anyway? And what age should it be applied to?

My son wouldn't have understood naughty at two if it was spelled out on an articulated truck (yellow).

SunnySkiesSleepsintheMorning · 08/10/2017 14:10

I am sick of the armchair diagnosing based on very little information but.........

Example 1.....
OP: My 7 year old pushed another child at school today. [gives no other information]
Armchair psychologist: have you considered autism?

Example 2.....
OP: My 5 year old screams in the playground if other children come near her. She waves her arms so viciously that she’s hitting other children.
Helpful MNer: my child did this and was diagnosed with autism. Have you considered X, Y or Z?

VinIsGroot · 08/10/2017 14:12

Ooohhhhh the benefits I forgot about them...that £70 a week.... considering your 8 yo is still in nappies but only gets 4 per day ...guess who buys the extras at £18 for 24. Need SN vests with access for gastrostomy. £14 each .... Crawls so goes through at least 2 pairs of bottoms per week I'm the knees. For someone to look after him from 9- 3 it cost £70. The multitude of hospital appointments per week.... Parking £4 per hour.
The amount of washing, cleaning etc done ...I dread to think. Petrol and diesel. running the couple of hundred miles to Great Ormond Street every 2 months. The parking there !!!
Having to have extra shoes as DV wears leg splints do needs school shoes with and without. Trainers with and without!
I could go on and I could also guarantee we don't make anything out of our DLA ...it is there for those specific reasons !

Now some of you should spend time in the sleep deprived lives of a severe SN mum .... 18 hours sleep I've had this week ..still need to function as a mother to three and wife and live off one wage because someone who has 18 hours sleep per week and has a child who's attendance at school was 44% last year ...can easily get a job! Ass family we are miss £2,600 a month ...but that extra £280 a month in benefits really makes thing worth it!!!
Think before you type !

Msqueen33 · 08/10/2017 14:12

I have two dc with autism and ADHD. Neither violent and it drives me mad how quick everyone on MN and IRL is so quick to suggest autism and ADHD when like suggested above a child needs more boundaries, better parenting, better diet and more sleep. It seems to be the go to these days.

PovertyPain · 08/10/2017 14:20

My 22yr old has autism and other complications. You couldn't meet a sweeter young woman, unless you meet her best friend, and her class mates. 😄 She attends class with a wonderful group of young people. Yes, some children with SN can have meltdowns or be more difficult to deal with, but I find most of the ones I come into contact with are lovely young people. My neighbour's child, who def doesn't have SNs, yea I know this for a fact, is an absolutely horrible child, but so are his parents.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 08/10/2017 14:21

The child isn't 'naughty', they're looking for help. But they don't realise it

Up to a point, yes, but then isn't it about what kind of help the child actually needs? IME all children require loving guidance and boundaries to grow up well, but sadly there are some parents who detest any restrictions on their own behaviour, never mind that of their children; should someone dare to suggest any, they'll instantly be told they're "judging"

To such parents it can be tempting to claim the child has some condition, in the expectation that this will remove their responsibility for how they're turning out