To think friend is being very snobbish towards me?

[ACommonPerson]

My friend lives on a private housing estate. It started off 18 years ago as a few small new houses bordering the council estate but popularity rocketed and the estate became huge. Thousands of new homes built, massive homes with triple driveways, balconys etc . It became so big that the city boundary has been extended to fit it in and they got their own shops, a salon, beauty parlour, butchers and deli etc as well as their own health centre and primary school which again was so popular, it's had to be extended. They have their own neighbourhood committee and now refer to themselves as a village. The neighbourhood that it became is now the most affluent area in the city.

It still neighbours the council estate however and I live on the border (council estate side).

Anyway, looking for primary school for DS next year and I said to friend that I intend to get him in the "village" school if I can as it has an excellent reputation. She looked shocked and said "you can't!". I asked why and she said that the school is there to serve the village and is already over subscribed. I said I realised it was over subscribed but it's a comp school and therefore is not just there to serve certain houses! I'm going to try my luck and if he gets in, brilliant.

She was almost angry and said she doesn't agree with people from outside the "village" trying to get into the school as it's hard enough for the people within it. We went back and forth on it and then she came quite defensive and said "to be blunt, the school is good for a reason, and that's because it doesn't have to take in kids from the council estates. She justified this by saving "there is a reason you don't want to take your DS to your catchment school and I'm betting it's because you know it's full of council estate kids and will be rough as hell for that reason.

I became a bit upset and said my DS had just as much right to a good education as her kids. She softened up slightly and said she agreed with me and she hopes he does get in but part of the reason people pay the high prices for these houses is for the school and it doesn't seem justified that the school will become swamped with council estate kids so whilst she hopes my DS gets in, she hopes no other kids get in off the estate.

I'm fuming! Name changes as she'll probably recognise this but I don't care!! Snobbery or does she have a point? Should the rest of us suck it up with shit schools because we haven't paid to live on the private estate?

Its normal for new housing estates to be built with their own schools and everything else, shops, libraries (if only they would sort out the roads to take all the extra traffic). We have a few of them in our city, we all know they are not real 'villages', just an extension of suburbia. If you're not in catchment and its a sought after school, I wouldn't expect to get in tbh.

Are you in the North West? Sounds like Buckshaw VIllage!
Ha Guest! That's what I thought and posted!
It does sound like the attitude of some of the people that I know that live there!

Are you in the North West? Sounds like Buckshaw VIllage!
Ha Guest! That's what I thought and posted!
It does sound like the attitude of some of the people that I know that live there!

I thought exactly the same 😂

I work in a town made up of a series estates. It was built virtually from scratch in the 1950s (a new town). About nine years ago some developers moved in wanting to put 3,000 new homes on the edge of the town. We went to the fancy marketing pitch and they were absolutely insistent that the new estate HAD to be called a new 'village' by the local media. I had a stand-up row with the wanker of a marketing director at launch about whether we, as the local paper would be calling it a village or not. I told him villages have provenance, history, an established community and organic growth. His new estate had none of these things.

Thankfully, I'm the local reporter, not him, so even now nearly a decade on I absolutely insist on calling it the ...... estate in every single piece I write. It would have been fine if it weren't for his disgusiting attitude towards the lowly people living in the town, which has suffered from some social problems following the closure of its main industry years ago.

I have also worked at the paper local to Buckshaw Village and I remember when they began to build it we called it the Buckshaw estate and got a rollicking from our commercial department who were taking thousands in advertising from them.

So I'd ditch your friend OP. She obviously thinks that people who live on council estates are well beneath them.

It sounds like Kingswood Village in Hull, which is next to Bransholme council estate. Locals refer to it as "Bransholme with a mortgage". Lovely houses but crime seems to be going up, and they're having trouble with not even GP places and school places.

OP, your friend is indeed being snobbish, and personally I'd look at her rather differently from now on.

Well she is being honest. As harsh as we may find it people do pay inflated prices for homes, to access a good school and i guess they feel a sense that they have bought the privilege of access to a school with children from more conventional non deprived backgrounds.
Obviously you really have to go private if you want to secure this.
Now, I have worked in schools in middle class areas and very poor areas and kids are kids. However there is no doubt that in the poor areas, there will always be a larger number of kids from homes facing issues-parents with addictions, drug dealing in neighboring properties, mental health problems,poverty, neglect, abuse, more single parent households. These kids understandably bring the effects of such circumstances into the classroom. As a teacher, you can only do so much to not let other children somehow be affected- it may just be you move more slowly through the curriculum as certain students exposed to this homelife, act out during the school day.

Now, as a teacher I am compassionate to my students coming in from very difficult homelives, but I fully the parents who just want to put their children into a school in a 'naice' area if they have the means-it is human nature and the poster is also trying to do exactly this. The school in the village will change if suddenly lots of kids from the council estate get in- that is just the reality that children from economically disadvantaged backgrounds do as a group present more issues that ultimately show up in the classroom.

I have to say I PREFER working in the school on the council estate because the students who do not have issues, are the most endearing unentitled students you could wish to teach. The students who present with issues deserve every bit of support to help them but they do impact classrooms- especially with teachers who are still learning to manage behavior.
Your friend is simply protecting an asset she feels she has paid a premium for- normal human behavior. The quality of the local school impacts house prices. No one wants to pay 600k for a home to find it is worth 400k ten years later because they change the school boundaries. No one wants their child going to the rough school if they can afford the better school and sadly it does come down to socio economic factors as all the research shows. Are there students from the council estate who do really well at school- of course there are! However, there are a critical mass of kids from the council estate who come to school traumatised by their home lives (understandably) and they require a lot more of the energy of the teacher ) and many other support staff) to make progress and not disrupt the learning of all the other students. Maybe 3-4 students who cope less well with the discipline of school , in one class, and with an inexperienced teacher, the entire school year can be lost due to the disruptions that they may cause.

As 'I'm alright Jack' as it is, parents want to buy their child out of that environment, if they have the means to. I would say most parents do, including the 'socialists' like Blair and Abbot. At least the tory parents don't pretend- they are honest about it.

Your friend is being honest with you- few are.

Start calling it Farmville OP

or 'the new estate'

Agree with pp saying if that's your friends attitude some of the other parents there probably won't be welcoming, would you really prefer your dc to grow up with these attitudes than in a "lesser" area with friendly people? I'd be looking at ofsteds and trying to get feel for the schools rather than assuming it's a better school because of where it is. Can't think of anything worse than a huge housing estate called a village personally and wouldn't be my choice.

Ha Mrlovebucket. You beat me to it!

What a cow! She's no friend, OP. She thinks she's better than you

The school in the village will change if suddenly lots of kids from the council estate get in- that is just the reality that children from economically disadvantaged backgrounds do as a group present more issues that ultimately show up in the classroom.

Our school hasn't. Parents are still falling over themselves to get their DCs into there. Rightly so too, it's a brilliant school. Ironically enough, the only ones that make a fuss of it are usually those that got their child in the school when they themselves weren't in the catchment area (which was more strictly adhered to back then) then.

This nonsense will continue until children are allocated a place at their nearest school. The political decision to give parents the illusion of "choice" (oh yeah, you have the "choice" to buy a super expensive house on the doorstep of the best school in your borough) has been so damaging for everyone involved. Children should not be subjected to a nerve-wracking application process and all the stress that comes with it. Not to mention the ludicrous environmental impact of parents driving all over the place to get to their desired school. It's ridiculous.

If everyone went to their nearest school, most could probably walk, parents would have an incentive to become helpers/governors/PTA members and help their nearest school to be the best it can be, instead of selling up, buying/renting within catchment and leaving again to play the system. It stinks!

IndianaMoleWoman sadly all the schools near us are faith based schools (catholic,CofE etc). As a consequence, they are already VERY hard to get into (usually by people who haven't set foot over a church threshold since their own holy communion). One Mum lived next door to her preferred school and had to fight to get her kids in.

"I became a bit upset and said my DS had just as much right to a good education as her kids"

The problem is that the good education at the village school is being provided because they are not having to include the students who come to school dealing with trauma- not from living on the rough estate but from being from families/homes where they are not getting their needs met. The plain truth is that whilst council estates will include many hard working people and their children, they also include people who are unable to rent privately because they have never worked, have been in prison, are addicted to something, are escaping domestic violence, suffering a chronic mental health condition....the list goes on. Children in these homes inevitable face greater challenges and many end up traumatised. Understandably they bring that trauma into the classroom and it makes for a different kind of learning environment for all the children in the class, no matter how great the teacher is. It may be that a good education becomes no longer available in those classrooms, depending on how the school supports these students and teachers. You child may be able to get an ok education in those circumstances. The point is that these traumatised children have a right to be educated but inevitably their needs are higher and they have an impact on every classroom they are in. The OP seems to want out of that as much as her neighbor-send your child to the council estate school and let your child be one of the kind , empathetic students who supports the disruptive students time and time again when they derail a lesson, sometimes threaten other students and teachers, sometimes bring drugs into school, or weapons. Because those children also deserve a good education and by moving your well balanced child, you will reduce their chances of getting that education.

This nonsense will continue until children are allocated a place at their nearest school.

Yes and no. We would still move to be on the doorstep of our chosen school, and if there was only 1 school for the kids, I am guessing the prices of some houses would go through the roof.
But I completely agree, kids should go to the nearest school, full stop. If parents move, then at least the siblings go to the new nearest one. Fair enough you can't really remove a child mid-year because his parents were only there temporarily.

Your friend is a cunt. Apply to the school regardless. You might not get in but that's why there are 6 choices on the form.

Jon Snow's wife- I am glad for you and you are lucky. I have seen both sides and if a school is near an area that is socially and economically deprived, it will have more students who come to school dealing with trauma. Schools may be able to manipulate who they take in and this makes a difference- if a school can specialise and take students from homes with parents committed to their child's education, from a wider area, the school may well end up being good.

The thing is it is not so much just poverty alone that causes issues, it is the fact that poverty can and often does go with other issues, that affects the students who come from those homes. If you get enough students from homes were parents are low earning but committed to education, you can create a 'successful' school. If the balance shifts and you get many students from homes where parents are dealing with issues, so their children are, it will be much harder for a school to create classrooms where most children thrive.

I do know how to use commas and the difference between were and where, before the part time pedants come out to feast.

JonSnowsWife don't get me started on faith schools!

She's a dick

Is it Buckshaw Village?
People here think it's amazing . ... I remain unconvinced

YourHand, I've said "oh, so it's basically Bransholme?" when hearing people tie themselves up in knots describing where their house on Kingswood is. I know full well where they meant all along...!

Are you sure she wasn't just warning you that you're very unlikely to get in as generally people outside the village don't get in?
If she meant that she could have said it. She was just being a snob.

What's wrong with faith schools? They give priority to pupils from their faith, which sounds reasonable enough, but include a fair amount of non-faith children. Technically, they could be reserved from children following their faith only - which could prevent parents ranting and complaining about schools talking about religion and religious beliefs.. in a faith school (they do exist!).