AIBU to not understand MRA

[ANewAlias]

I get that in the past women have had it tougher than men in most cultures.

This isn't the case anymore. Men / boys are facing their own challenges yet the term MRA is an insult. Is it because it's been hi-jacked in a similar way to the flag of St George has? If so, what is an unloaded alternative?

If it isn't hi-jacked, why is it used as an insult?

I'm not trying to goad. I just want a balanced answer which Google hasn't provided and I'm not sure any part of MN would either.

@Egragiois

Thanks for the understanding of anonymity.

Basically, meta-analysis of tertiary education results with regard to assessment types and teaching types.

A summary of my last few years work is 'boys find modern assessment methods tougher. They perform better under stress and in examinations where they're right or wrong'.

The best method for assessing attainment is another argument entirely but my decades of experience suggest that the sexes, on the whole, are better suited to different subjects. This is regardless of assessment types and built around real-world scenarios, putting academic learning into practice in particular fields.

"my decades of experience suggest that the sexes, on the whole, are better suited to different subjects."

Oooh (rubs hands together in anticipation of a good spat). Do tell us which ones. And what evidence you'd adduce for these claims. And how you get round the issue of the very small d-values between the male and female distributions for cognitive attainments (in the relatively small number of experiments where any difference has been measured between the means of the distributions). And how you solve the nature/nurture problem given brain plasticity (particularly in early childhood) and the way in which differences can be measured in the way adults treat children of different sexes and begin to socialise them in quite different ways from early infancy onwards. And how education policy should be reworked round your assumptions.

Like I say, really looking forward to this one.

Much to @Bertrand's annoyance, I have to go for an hour or so.

I'd confused though @Datun how you're happy to lump "every MRA" together but would be unhappy, I suspect, if you were lumped in with every feminist.

Why?

I didn't pretend to be confused by the term MRA (I'm not sure if Picklyball's an idiot or simply struggles with reading). Since my first post I've asked what alternatives there are should MRA be 'ruined'. I also asked why it was an insult. You've said it's an insult because of the opinion of the masses (in the same way as feminist) but not what alternative there are when you're an MRA in the positive and original sense of the word.

I still think that it's sexist that it's become an insult. Nothing has changed that but I've liked reading some of the intelligent responses.

Are there? Obviously there are plenty of men like that-but within the MRA movement? Really? Who?

I don't think ANY man who is not a misogynist would describe himself as MRA. Really. No one ever.
Either he hasn't heard of the term, or he has - and in the latter case, he'd know it is all about misogyny and want nothing to do with it.

I'd confused though @Datun how you're happy to lump "every MRA" together but would be unhappy, I suspect, if you were lumped in with every feminist.

MRAs are not the male equivalent of feminism. They are a subset of men who couldn't give a toss about men's rights.

If that doesn't describe you, I can't imagine why you'd want the label.

@Pricklyball

I'll DM you, if that's okay, rather than out myself here.

Is it?

I'll happily explain how I have shaped education policy.

OMG - are you Michael Gove

Hang on OP- Not sure why you're calling Pricklyball an idiot. She's just asked some extremely pertinent questions

@Datun

Ignoring the problem that feminism is a dying label, what can someone call themselves whose predominant interest is in male issue(s)? I certainly don't want to be called a feminist anymore.

You are intent on putting down MRAs, but without any kind of factual reason.

@ANewAlias could you also PM me? I'd love to read it.

She's just asked some extremely pertinent questions

Which the OP doesn't want to publicly answer, for some reason.

Statisticallychallenged makes an excellent point near the beginning of this thread.

OP, your assertion that feminists have achieved everything they set out to do is obviously very wrong. If they had then the issues that concern mras, many of which could be seen as the result of a patriarchal society, wouldn't exist.

@ANewAlias I would also like to know how you have personally shaped education. Please PM

ANewAlias

The factual reason is experience of MRAs. What other reason would I have!

Posters have given you links to MRA sites, things MRAs say and articles they have written.

They're not secret. They don't hide it!

And I really don't have the slightest interest in what you call yourself!

You asked a question and received an answer.

Strewth.

I asked if she were an idiot because of her deliberate misreading of my OP.

She didn't ask pertinent questions, she used enough long words to make me think that sending her outing sources was worthwhile.

@Datun

We all value our privacy. I value mine because I'm able to have anonymous views which could get me fired if aired in public.

My 'outing' is likely to end my life as I know it.

Good enough reason?

@Datun

We all value our privacy. I value mine because I'm able to have anonymous views which could get me fired if aired in public.

My 'outing' is likely to end my life as I know it.

Good enough reason?

So why post on a bloody publicly accessible forum, then!

Asking for opinions, giving assertions, telling people they're wrong. And whining about wanting to be called an MRA, but disliking the fact MRAs are idiot misogynists!

I should imagine you stand far more chance of being fired as a complete time waster, than anything else.

@ANewAlias she asked for the research evidence for the statements you made regarding males and females being suited to different subjects.
I'd consider that a pertinent question.

Not surprised to hear you identify as MRA OP.

You tick all the boxes.

Spends a ludicrous amount of time engaging with feminists. Tick.

Drags out all the usual make centric problems ad infinium. Tick.

Dismisses the need for feminism. Tick.

Whilst simultaneously pointing out how it's a busted flush. Tick.

Sets oneself up as an 'expert' without any evidence. Tick.

Becomes abusive to women when they won't listen. Tick.

A lot of people who are MRA have grandiose tendencies and fixed beliefs bordering on the delusional. Would you say that you fall into this category OP?

That's exactly what feminists are accused of doing.

Weasel words. By whom, where, when and on what grounds? More importantly, on which meaningful and honest grounds?

In theory I have no problem with MRAs. Men's access to mental health services isn't great, suicide stats are shocking and men do at times get a short straw regarding contact arrangements following a divorce. So I have no problem with men trying to address these issues.

However, and I appreciate this us anecdotal, any MRAs I have talked to either in real life or online have been absolute mysoginistic bellends full of hatred and anger towards women. I've read that it's a consequence of being part of an apparently privileged group (white male) but feeling short-changed by that privilege. Every MRA I've spoken too doesn't want to engage with feminist/egalitarianism or whatever you want to call it, they just want to try and outsmart me to prove my opinions are wrong. Like I said though this is purely anecdotal but it has coloured my view over time of the men's rights movement.

In my view if we think about one MRA issue - contact after divorce. Society's view of pushing women into the role of carers & men as wage earners means that after having children, many women suffer financially as do their career prospects, but then following a divorce, men will suffer because they aren't seen as the primary caregiver. An MRA would I think say this is down to the legal system favouring women and men should be given better contact arrangements or 50/50 should be the norm. Whereas I, a feminist, feel getting to the root of the problem would be more beneficial. Moving towards the idea that men are just as capable caregivers as women with more men taking paternity leave or changing their hours to suit family life, but also the idea that it's possible to be a good mum and continue with your career. I've spent some time in Sweden and I think they are a lot further along this road than we currently are in the uk.

I think you're stuck on the term without actually looking into who these people are.

Go to a 'men's rights activists' website and see the filth they spew. Ever heard the term feminazi?

If they wanted men and women to be equal, they'd be feminists.

But they don't, they think men are oppressed and that reverse sexism is a thing (it's not).

OutComeTheWolves

Yes, I agree with that. From what I understand, it's not the parents rights that have any say in the matter, it's only the best interests of the children.

If the primary or resident caregiver is the mother, then it serves the interests of those children for her to have custody.

I would certainly like to see a more 50-50 split between men and women in terms of caregiving.

Thing is, if OP was what he claimed to be (an academic researcher) he would be capable of giving us a list of the relevant papers in child psychology, educational psychology, educational theory and neuroscience to back up his claims without outing himself. I could do that in my field of study. It's kind of a given for any level in academia from masters student upwards that one should be capable of doing this. Chapter 1 of the thesis - literature survey of what's going on in the field right now.

OP - no-one (least of all me) has asked you to out yourself (though the "You're Michael Gove, aren't you?" did make me laugh). Nor have I solicited any PMs from you. You haven't sent me any either, thank god (and please keep it that way - I have no wish to receive any sort of private communication from you whatsoever).

Men's mental health, fairness in custody arrangements - these would be addressed if we no longer lived under a patriarchy. If society didn't propagate mental health issues as weakness (i.e. Female) and if women didn't statistically end up worse off after divorce, these issues would resolve.