AIBU to not understand MRA

[ANewAlias]

I get that in the past women have had it tougher than men in most cultures.

This isn't the case anymore. Men / boys are facing their own challenges yet the term MRA is an insult. Is it because it's been hi-jacked in a similar way to the flag of St George has? If so, what is an unloaded alternative?

If it isn't hi-jacked, why is it used as an insult?

I'm not trying to goad. I just want a balanced answer which Google hasn't provided and I'm not sure any part of MN would either.

I would think that far from deserting the term, more and more women identify as feminists and so do some men.

Are you a man, op?

Didn't get 'good enough' responses for all the other times you've brought up your 'but what about the menz' shtick?

Pretty much every argument and point MRAs bring up time and time again can be challenged and debunked.

Go have a look at any Redpill, MGTOW, MRA, Incel reddit page.

'Women have little idea how much men hate them'

MRA is a movement with an agenda or prioritised set of issues, in the same way BLM. feminism and RSPCB are.

Please direct me to the website of Feminism, the Global Movement, particularly the page that lists their prioritised issues and their agenda!

BLM is a campaign. Rspb is a charitable organisation. They are not remotely the same as feminism, any more that they are similar to other philosophies.

In addition to things mentioned by pp about MRAs, I'll just point out that they've been known to come to MN to stir up trouble, create fictional threads and be outright unpleasant. That's possibly another reason - as if one is needed - that they're not too popular here.

In theory a MRA could help initiate positive change in which they produce an active discourse on how men might live more peaceful lives, they could challenge the privileged form of masculinities that make lots of men feel inadequate, they could set up shelters for men who have been abused by other men and occasionally women and provide somewhere safe for them to talk about the particular ways that that affects them because of the afore mentioned privileged masculinities.

But no, they sit around ranting about all the evil women and sad wanking into their Spiderman outfits.

MRA is not a male version of feminism. MRAs are not concerned with providing men with support and resources where those are lacking. They only care about taking things away from women.

Look at all the discussions about breast cancer vs prostate cancer; support for make and female domestic violence victims and similar. MRAs are never there discussing what they could do to raise awareness and get more support for issues concerning men. They are either saying that women don't need what we get, or complaining that feminists are not figthing hard enough to get also the support men need.

Its seen as an insult because their arguments are flawed logically and factually and often peppered with misogyny and insults. In a similar way to the BNP, actually.

Oh and reddit is not mostly populated by teenagers, btw.

SistersOfMercy is absolutely right.

MRAs never actually seem to support the causes they claim are so important. They're not out there setting up men's refuges and mental health support and so on. I donlt know the official stats but anecdotally it seems the main profesionals working with abused or unwell men are women! MRA's have this view of men's rights encompassing being allowed to behave as they please, have sex with whomever they want, and generally have women sort everything out for them.

The suicide stats are complex. Men tend to "act out" whereas women "act in", becoming depressed and self-harming etc. where men are more likely to become violent to others, do a "big" thing like kill themselves. It's part of male violence, which society refuses to address (and MRAs especially so). There's this implication that somehow women must have it easier, that they are making a fuss, rather than plodding on through mental distress and terrible situations.

Feminism is about liberating women from oppression. MRA's fight against women, they rarely fight for men and boys.

Your opening statement that women no longer have it tougher than men is untrue. 85 000 women are raped each year, by men. Men commit 98% of sexual violence and the majority of all violent crime. Men are not called sluts if they have sex, women are. My daughter has been harassed in the street, frightened by men, cat called and followed. She is 12. That needs to stop, the boys in her class need to stop openly watching porn and making the girls uncomfortable.

I do what I can to make these things stop, raise awareness, help with period poverty. I do what I can to help the girls and women across the world who are persecuted because of their biology.

What rights do you feel men need and what are you doing to help them gain those rights?

MRAs always seem to be attacking women and feminism. There are issues that men are affected by, but people who call themselves MRAs don't seem to address these.
Grayson Perry writes interestingly on the 'crisis of masculinity' but doesn't call himself an MRA.
I know 'dad's playgroups and charities for boys... none of the organisers of them call themselves MRAs.

It is not mumsnet or feminists that use MRA as an insult, it is that only a certain brand of anti-women anti-feminism calls themselves MRAs.

Women out earn men until child-bearing age and outperform men for most of their academic lives in most subjects.

so why not after child bearing? If they are outperforming at school and in early career, what set up is preventing them carrying on and reaching the top levels of the ladder? Why so under represented in the higher levels of society? The expectation that they will take on all the mental and emotional and literal effort of running the home, or the fact that their career is considered secondary and less important than their role as a mother. Why is all that not split between the sexes?

Mental health is another arena where men need support. Seen suicide stats.

as a previous poster said, men are not supposed to be seen as weak or needing support. The support is there, they are just not seeking it.

A REAL MRA would be fighting the same thing as the feminists - to widen what it means to be a man, to be allowed to express the so called 'feminine' things, as the feminists demanded access to stuff previously thought of as the 'men's realm' - not trying to force women back into the kitchen.

Show me a MRA who instead of complaining about women's refuges and claiming false stats about DV against men; is actually out campaigning to open men's refuges.

Show me a MRA who instead of complaining that men get shafted in custody cases; is actually doing at least 50% of the childcare and fighting for flexi-time for men and more paternity leave.

Show me a MRA who instead of claiming that child maintenance is unfair is either actually covering 50 % of the cost of raising a child and campaigning to enforce deadbeats to pay what the CSA have advised instead of actively working to leave their children in poverty.

Because thats a small example of what self declared MRAs have recently complained about and get very indignant when asked what are they doing about it other than complain that feminists aren't doing anything about it

Behold!

OP, you keep saying that patriarchy is the only answer you're getting- do you actually understand what it means? And I'm not being goady, it's a genuine question.
Do you understand how power structures work in society, and the trickle down effect of that into our everyday life, the way it influences our thoughts and behaviours?
MRA's endorse a power framework that implicitly subjugates women

Good point damnsummercold

LIke those who complain about Race for Life just being for women, and how 'they'd never allow a men only race'. In fact one man did try and organise one in my home town, for men only for testicular cancer. It was supported by the council but failed because no one entered it.

Mud

MRAs remind me of a guy I knew, who actually called the employer of his wife and demanded that they retract wife's recent promotion and salary rise, as she now earned more than him and that's not acceptable.

Actually, they aren't implicit, they are pretty explicit about subjugating women

I think one thing they have a very valid point in is the massive unfairness in the family courts. It had led to severe mental breakdowns and suicide in some cases and men ARE treated unfairly in this area.

Other greivances could be:-

Men are way more likely to die in the course of their job, the suicide rate is higher.

Men generally fight our wars and are still considered the main party responsible to provide for their families

While we see endless activism in getting more women to work in STEM we see little of the same activism for women to work in Bricklaying, Sewage operators, Waste Collecting, roofers, Miners etc.

Wow @upperlimit what a great MRA movement that would be... if they actually did it!!

This Ted talk is the closest thing I've found to a man setting out how men might behave in such a movement. Notice how he talks about leadership.

www.ted.com/talks/jackson_katz_violence_against_women_it_s_a_men_s_issue/up-next

OP, I think this might be what you imagine MRA sort of "ought to be". The problem is it doesn't really exist as a movement like this, tackling the root causes of society's problems. MRA writing as far as I've seen is about how feminism is unfair. If it was a genuine philosophical movement we would not dismiss it - because the real root causes of problems for men are pretty much identical to the ones identified by feminist thought. Problems with capitalism, and how work and non-market work are valued. Problems with the way gender is constructed, problems caused by old fashioned traditions around property, childcare and marriage - which yes, do stem from patriarchy.

Can I ask - in a non-patronising way - that you actually go and look up what patriarchy means please OP? From your posts you seem to be falling into the common error that feminists think individual men are in some kind of conscious conspiracy against them. I'm not surprised you find it a far-fetched explanation. If you read in a bit more, you'll get educated and your posts will be less naive and "beginner"ish.

damnsummercold

But...but...if they actually did something worthwhile then they wouldn't have all their time to hate on women #poormen

MRA and white lives matter type people fail to understand the institutional and cultural aspects of sexism and racism, focusing on small incidents of perceived "unfairness" such as a boys not being allowed to join an all girls club. I

Society in general in the U.K., US and Europe at least is biased in favour of white people. And society the world over is biased in favour of men.

Londonyardwork So what are men doing about those things and what support do they want from women?