AIBU to not understand MRA

[ANewAlias]

I get that in the past women have had it tougher than men in most cultures.

This isn't the case anymore. Men / boys are facing their own challenges yet the term MRA is an insult. Is it because it's been hi-jacked in a similar way to the flag of St George has? If so, what is an unloaded alternative?

If it isn't hi-jacked, why is it used as an insult?

I'm not trying to goad. I just want a balanced answer which Google hasn't provided and I'm not sure any part of MN would either.

Of course MRA is an insult.

I mean, which normal human could look at the world and think 'you know which underrepresented, vulnerable group I feel need my time and energy - men.'

Ha @egregiouspeach we cross posted advising op to look up patriarchy 😀

MRA is an insult because of the way MRAs behave.
Any decent person would be insulated to be lumped in with them
I believe there is a male group who genuinely work to improve things for men and boys and not just complain about women

Hidingalion

You won't get anywhere with OP, I'm afraid.

They are not naive.

They have been told all of this before, many times.

MissHavishamsleftdaffodil

I don't mean to imply that women should solve men's problems for them. Perhaps the opposite. I'm saying that men shouldn't be criticised when they do fight for their problems.

I do fight, fundraise, raise awareness and hold events. All this despite being a woman and a feminist. I also ran a marathon raising money fighting ovarian cancer. I think you're missing my point. Perhaps down to my writing or explanation.\

Bertrand

Two important men's issues are education and mental health. The firs tI' directly / professionally involved in. The second, a passing interest. I'm not specifically about discussing those. I will but it's a little too close to my day job.

I don't know exactly what you mean by MRA material. I could link to studies until I get bored showing how males need help in specific areas. To make myself sound a little more impressive, I could say things like my friend x wrote y, and so forth.

The point of the thread though is why MRA is an insult when it shouldn't be.

BlowMeDownWithAFeatherMissis

I'm a woman although exhibit many 'masculine' traits.

You're wrong about people deserting the term. They like the ideology of equality but no the label.

user1495832265

You have said why MRAs are unpopular but not how you define them. Do you mean anyone who goes against the status quo?

museumum

"t is not mumsnet or feminists that use MRA as an insult"

I would completely disagree. I don't want to bring the wrath of MNHQ down on me but look at threads trending about women giving direction to men. MRA was an insult liberally used.

@TinyRick

*user1495832265

You have said why MRAs are unpopular but not how you define them. Do you mean anyone who goes against the status quo?*

No.

Why is MRA an insult? Because nobody's ever seen one who could find his arse without an atlas.

In slightly more mature terms - they fight against women, they don't fight for men. They bitch, moan, whine, threaten and whinge instead of doing something positive and constructive. They are mantoddlers.

Bold fail.

why is the label being deserted by the majority of people.

Is it? I don't think that's the case at all. There is a new wave of young feminists taking up the reins and feminism is being talked about everywhere.

I could get behind MRAs if they concentrated on and worked towards addressing men's issues - suicide rates, why men commit assault etc. But they aren't, they're mostly concerned about what women are doing.

@Hidingalion Great minds and all that!

Ah, TinyRick. Thanks for that. In that case, I'm out.

You're confusing MRA with groups who actively campaign for men's rights. They're not the same.
MRAs are a particular type of men's activists who think that women have equality we don't who think women should fix 'things for men we shouldn't and who frame their activism as blaming women for all the world's ills rather than, for example, campaigning against the patriarchy.
There are men's groups who run support services for men; who campaign around men's MH issues, etc. They wouldn't be termed MRAs.
MRAs are the (often violent and abusive) idiots who use the cover of 'men's rights' to disparage and blame women for men having a difficult time (whilst ignoring that they earn more; that women are more likely to be killed by their partners, etc, etc)

MRAs are not the male equivalent of feminists.

''Paul Elam, is (worryingly) a former mental health service provider who has, among other egregious revelations, openly stated that if he ever sits on a jury of a rape trial, he'll vote to acquit on principle - even in the face of overwhelming evidence that the charges are true. ''

www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-19/ford-a-lesson-for-mens-rights-activists-on-real-oppression/5533412

Roosh V runs the website Return of Kings, and is a pick up guru
One of his favourite articles is ''The Decimation Of Western Women Is Complete''
www.patheos.com/blogs/leavingfundamentalism/2016/02/03/i-was-a-pickup-artist-and-roosh-v-should-worry-you/

Here, Roosh gives men' an easy way to isolate a girl in a bar', and a 'simple move to defeat bedroom resistance'
www.rooshv.com/how-to-pick-up-girls-on-the-street

''Roosh V used to go out most nights looking to seduce a woman, but today he has a much easier task: He’s just looking to piss one off.''
www.newsweek.com/2016/10/21/roosh-v-pickup-artist-right-wing-provocateur-509319.html

Whats to admire about these men?

OP I think MRAs got about four mentions on that thread, mine was to say I didn't think we'd had an invasion, I wasn't using it as an insult.

I think one thing they have a very valid point in is the massive unfairness in the family courts. It had led to severe mental breakdowns and suicide in some cases and men ARE treated unfairly in this area.

*Are they? Could you say more?

Other greivances could be:-

Men are way more likely to die in the course of their job, the suicide rate is higher.

The work related deaths figures do not include prostitution. Which is interesting. And surely the complaign should be for no men to die in the course of their work, not that more women should!*
The suicide figures are misleading- more women actually attempt suicide- more men succeed*

Men generally fight our wars and are still considered the main party responsible to provide for their families

It has been men who have kept women out of active service. And, until very recently, men who have been the ones deciding whether we are going to have a war or not!

While we see endless activism in getting more women to work in STEM we see little of the same activism for women to work in Bricklaying, Sewage operators, Waste Collecting, roofers, Miners etc.
That's an interesting selection-are they supposed to be examples of crap jobs? If so-there isn't any activism to get men into the many crap jobs women do either!

No idea ! I suppose some are speaking up through MRA groups. Its not something i need to be involved in personally.

Gosh, sorry. Epic bold fail. I hope it makes sense.

While we see endless activism in getting more women to work in STEM we see little of the same activism for women to work in Bricklaying, Sewage operators, Waste Collecting, roofers, Miners etc.

We also don't see activism to get men to work in cleaning or clerical work. Can you think why people might not petition for more of a particular group to work in low-paid, low status or possibly dangerous work, but might set up systems to increase their representation in high-status well-paid jobs, particularly where there is a national shortage of workers?

"The point of the thread though is why MRA is an insult when it shouldn't be"

OK. I'll try again. Can you point me towards someone who describes themself as an MRA who talks or writes in a measured, thoughtful way about men's issues/rights?

Some Christians want to stone gay people. Some Muslims want Sharia law, some feminists want all men dead.

I'm aware of the first two, but have never come across a feminist who wants all men dead. Or even the majority of men dead. Can you point me to one, please?

I'm saying that men shouldn't be criticised when they do fight for their problems.

We don't criticise men who fight for their problems. We criticise men who claim to fight for their problems but instead make arguments for taking women's rights and services away. (Services we need because of male behaviour.)

"While we see endless activism in getting more women to work in STEM we see little of the same activism for women to work in Bricklaying, Sewage operators, Waste Collecting, roofers, Miners etc."

Isn't that because there is already a long, long list of shitty low paid jobs that are the sole preserve of women? cleaning, caring etc?

"Men generally fight our wars"

You mean the wars started by men that women aren't actually allowed to fight in?

"...and are still considered the main party responsible to provide for their families"

Because women are often forced out of work to care for children?

I have never seen a feminist or any woman criticise a man for fighting to resolve the problems of some vulnerable men.

But that doesn't mean they have to help.

However, MRAs rarely actually do much, preferring to argue/goad/upset women.