Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to not understand MRA

206 replies

ANewAlias · 15/08/2017 08:59

I get that in the past women have had it tougher than men in most cultures.

This isn't the case anymore. Men / boys are facing their own challenges yet the term MRA is an insult. Is it because it's been hi-jacked in a similar way to the flag of St George has? If so, what is an unloaded alternative?

If it isn't hi-jacked, why is it used as an insult?

I'm not trying to goad. I just want a balanced answer which Google hasn't provided and I'm not sure any part of MN would either.

OP posts:
haba · 15/08/2017 09:54

Women out earn men until child-bearing age and outperform men for most of their academic lives in most subjects.
Do you mean women in England? What about our sisters in the other almost 209 nations of the world? What about those nations where girls are prevented from receiving education, or women are not allowed to work?

You could liken the "women outperform men in earnings until childbearing age" thing to that of athletes- they need to front-load their earnings because in the main they're heavily penalised afterwards.

StatisticallyChallenged · 15/08/2017 09:57

I think you view equality as a fight women have won and now we're just being mean. It's not. It's not the sins of the fathers - women face inequality right now.

Most MRA types aren't really aiming for equality - they tend to be angry men who blame women for everything wrong in their lives.

MRA is an insult because many act like absolute dicks, essentially. There aren't the same structural inequalities impacting men so it's not the equivalent of feminism. I've personally never come across one who isn't essentially unhappy that feminism has put women in a stronger position than they were in before.

You mention pay - and childbearing age - but even women who don't have children generally earn less overall.

PickAChew · 15/08/2017 09:58

I'd have less problem with the MRA movement if the typical MRA wasn't so obviously a manchild.

BertrandRussell · 15/08/2017 09:58

And if you are still unclear about why MRA is used as an insult, can I direct you to Reddit. 10 minutes on there should help clarify things for you!

dollydaydream114 · 15/08/2017 10:01

The men's version of feminist

It isn't. Feminism is the notion that men and women should be equal, so the men's version of 'feminist' is also 'feminist'. MRAs are men who don't want to relinquish the power men have had over women; they are not egalitarian.

They also mock and shame other men as 'cucks', 'pussies' and 'sissies' for not agreeing with them, so they don't even have men's general interests at heart.

Original poster
ANewAlias · 15/08/2017 10:02

Bertrand

Honestly, 'feminist' is a serious red flag to me and the majority of the Western world. It's used as an insult and even if you support the ideas, you're statistically unlikely to want the label.

"some MRA think that it is sexist and unfair of women not to want to have sex with less attractive men"

maybe ...

Some Christians want to stone gay people. Some Muslims want Sharia law, some feminists want all men dead. I may disagree with you but I do see you as more intelligent that tarring all with the same brush.

Are you saying that MRA is simply derogatory because of hi-jacking / association?

I am yet to see someone self-identify as MRA. As I said, it's used as a 'disregard the MRA' type insult so don't really get your red flag comment.

I feel like you're looking for a 'poor women' slant on the sex-skewed MH stats and even tried to blame masculinity and patriarchy for men killing themselves more frequently. Are you against men's rights advocates?

haba

Yes, I mean women in England. I'm well travelled and have lived on most continents but my life has mostly been being a British woman. I think the front-loading suggestion is seriously missing the mark. Are you saying that women work harder because they know they'll earn less when they have children? Are you suggesting that there's a conspiracy among employers as they pity women? Surely the backed-by-statistics stance is that women do better in tertiary and higher education and piggy-back on these better grades to do better in professional roles.

Education is an area where women out perform men. Just as this needed to be addressed when vice versa, it can only be a good thing when there are groups advocating for the lesser performing class.

OP posts:
SilentlyScreamingAgain · 15/08/2017 10:03

I get that in the past women have had it tougher than men in most cultures.

Has the wage gap been closed? The bloody Guradian didn't say a word about it.

Slimthistime · 15/08/2017 10:05

OP have a look at a few MRA websites and you'll find your answer.

Macncheesewithbacon · 15/08/2017 10:08

*I get that in the past women have had it tougher than men in most cultures.

This isn't the case anymore.*

What planet are you living on? Not earth, that's for sure.

dollydaydream114 · 15/08/2017 10:09

I'm not really sure why you started this thread, OP. You had clearly already made up your mind all about this issue from the start and have no intention of paying any attention to anyone's responses, or indeed to actual facts.

Pengggwn · 15/08/2017 10:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BertrandRussell · 15/08/2017 10:10

"I feel like you're looking for a 'poor women' slant on the sex-skewed MH stats and even tried to blame masculinity and patriarchy for men killing themselves more frequently. Are you against men's rights advocates?"

If you can read that into what I said then frankly I can't be arsed. I tried to answer your question as clearly as I could. The mental health stats are not as straightforward as they appear, and men are victims of our patriarchal society.

I am not against people who want to work to support men in areas where they feel they need support. I am against anyone who calls themselves an MRA specifically. Because I have never met or read or listened to anything by someone who did which was not misogynist and woman blaming. As I said, pop over to Reddit for 10 minutes.

LottieDoubtie · 15/08/2017 10:10

What does this have to do with issues men are facing. Does every female problem need to be solved before men's can be addressed?

This is the funniest thing i've read on MN for ages. It's a masterclass in deliberate misunderstanding of the issues. Bravo OP.

TheEgregiousPeach · 15/08/2017 10:11

i feel like you're looking for a poor woman slant on the skewed MH stats and even tried to blame masculinity and patriarchy for men killing themselves

Constructs of masculinity within a patriarchal culture do contribute to young men committing suicide. Look up toxic masculinity

lessworriedaboutthecat · 15/08/2017 10:13

MRA's are just sad little men whose only contact with women is when their mum demands they tidy their room and throw out all the cups full of piss they've filled up because they cant leave the internet to go to the toilet.

BertrandRussell · 15/08/2017 10:13

And you may find the word "feminist" a "red flag"

But most of what feminists say or write is not anti men or blaming men or expecting men to rescue them.

Unlike MRA. Who have an overarching woman blaming agenda. No thoughtful aware man would sign up!

Sistersofmercy101 · 15/08/2017 10:18

The reason it's an insult is because MRA believe that... the more rights women have means that men have less and that this means men are oppressed, therefore they believe that women should have less rights... They actively demand that women shouldn't have maternity leave, that it should be the same as paternity leave because then it would be "fair". This is ONE example and it goes on... Women in abusive relationships should be forced to leave the children because the children aren't being hurt and deserve their father. Women's refuges should be shut because men are not allowed. Basically, any protection for women, any allowance for women should be taken away or banned or removed because MRA's can't have them too. THAT is why MRA is an insult.

WhereWhyWhat · 15/08/2017 10:20

Honestly, 'feminist' is a serious red flag to me and the majority of the Western world. It's used as an insult and even if you support the ideas, you're statistically unlikely to want the label.

Had it crossed your mind that MRA agenda/propaganda might be behind that view of a word which stands for equality?

DJBaggySmalls · 15/08/2017 10:21

MRA's are not the male version of feminism.

''Paul Elam, is (worryingly) a former mental health service provider who has, among other egregious revelations, openly stated that if he ever sits on a jury of a rape trial, he'll vote to acquit on principle - even in the face of overwhelming evidence that the charges are true.''
www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-19/ford-a-lesson-for-mens-rights-activists-on-real-oppression/5533412

Read the first chapter of Andrea Dworkins ''Right Wing Women'', then check out the chapter headings.

AfunaMbatata · 15/08/2017 10:23

Because if they just supported the disestablishing of the patriarchy then most likely the problems males face in our society would be solved.

Original poster
ANewAlias · 15/08/2017 10:23

@BertrandRussell

I thought that MN may be more mature than Reddit.

I see that this thread has simply descended into me being called obtuse etc.

The closest I seem to have got to an answer was that the patriarchy is to blame for all ills.

You used the term 'most feminists' but if that's true, why is the label being deserted by the majority of people. If you use an argument about misrepresentation then surely the same would apply to MRA?

@dollydaydream114

You're half right. Yes, I began the thread with a set position which was 'MRA shouldn't be an insult'. However, I've read every most threads with interest. MRA is a movement with an agenda or prioritised set of issues, in the same way BLM. feminism and RSPCB are. That doesn't mean it's wrong though.

When I began the thread I was hoping for a non-hijacked alternative. I knew some of the responses would be predictable but I'm crossing my fingers and hoping for the best.

@lessworriedaboutthecat

See my comment about wanting to avoid Reddit. Teenagers are annoying, especially when they pretend to act like adults.

OP posts:
MissHavishamsleftdaffodil · 15/08/2017 10:24

What does this have to do with issues men are facing. Does every female problem need to be solved before men's can be addressed?

By whom? This seems to imply that women should stop messing around with thinking about women's issues when MEN are suffering - women should sort those issues out first. For men.

Why do you feel it is the job of women's organisations (for women) to sort out mens issues for them? Don't you see the problem there?

If you're concerned about men's issues that's great, go do something about it. Fund raise. Raise awareness. Hold events. It's actually possible to focus on different people's issues at the same time without anyone being threatened, breast cancer charities don't whinge and whine that the British Heart Foundation are fussing on about heart health when they ought to be fixing breast cancer.

It's amazing how many men show up on MN to complain about women daring to do stuff that doesn't centre and prioritise men. The whole thought of women focusing on women's issues in itself is interpreted as a threat.

Edsheeranalbumparty · 15/08/2017 10:25

'When you have only ever known privilege, equality feels like oppression'.

This sums up MRAs for me.

noblegiraffe · 15/08/2017 10:28

It's funny that in a thread that's ostensibly about men's rights you've seen fit to slate feminism, call it toxic, and claim without evidence that women don't have any problems with equality anymore.

That really sums up why MRAs have a bad rep. Because that's what they normally do.

BertrandRussell · 15/08/2017 10:30

"If you use an argument about misrepresentation then surely the same would apply to MRA?"

Yes of course it could. Can you show me where I can read some measured, thoughtful MRA material? That is a genuine question- I would really like to see some.

I'd be happy to address any particular men's issues you think are important too. And I promise not to say "it's all the patriarchy's fault". Although there is usually an element of that in it.