To be so fucked off with my toddlers behaviour

[cassiebabie]

My toddler has just tried to head butt my partner after being told off for hitting and trying to kick.
He seems angry a lot of time. Will hit for no reason, scream if he doesn't get his own way.
Can be walking down the street and if you don't take his hand he will just stop and start screaming like a banshee. Then he will run at you, hurting himself more. If you don't acknowledge him he will scratch or bite you
I've just had to turn tv off as he is on his bike purposly crashing into things like his table or his sister's bouncer.
I'm so fucking fed up of being in tears at this behaviour. Is it normal? What can I do please

How did you ask him, cassie? Did you keep your tone neutral?

If he's expecting to be told off, then he's going to be defensive. As an example, I would have sat down with DS, so we were on a level, and asked him in a neutral tone of voice 'DS, why did you spit on your cars?'

Was it because he wanted your attention, do you think? I assume by the phrasing you used 'I witnessed him', that you were not with him at the time.

It sounds as though he is really struggling to regulate his behaviour, and acting out like this is his way of telling you he needs some help. My DS gets like this when he's tired, or particularly hungry. Have you ruled both of those out?

Did you make him say sorry to your partner? 'DS, it's unkind to hit. Say sorry to DP.' He says sorry, and then all is forgiven and you do something different.

These techniques are what DH and I use, mostly gained from DH's experience practicing as a child psychologist, and from books like the one mentioned earlier - how to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk.

It's great that you're asking for help OP but this does sound 'bigger' than 'just' a 3 year old being naughty.

I don't understand how he can be so very young and have been through so so much (& he really has been through a vast wringer compared to most children at that age). You say he has been like this for a year so that's from about 2yrs 2mo old and when you would have been about 2 months preggers - are those calcs correct?

Did his kicking off coincide with anything, IE new partner was obv already on the scene as you were already pregnant (presuming the above calcs are correct!) but is that when he moved in with you and your son?

Am also wondering how big the gap between splitting with violent Ex and getting together with new DP was, IE if you and your son had enough time to properly heal from all that you had both been through? A child - no matter how young - will always pick up on DV so please don't think it won't have affected him as it absolutely will have done so, but equally that offers hope too IYKWM as all you have described suggests a damaged child, not an inherently 'bad' child (if such a thing even exists).

Did you - or would you now - do the Freedom Programme? If I were you I'd both do that myself and also speak to my GP and explain just everything in the hope of getting some support - eg art therapy, play therapy - for your son to try and make sense of his world; also second PPs vis both love bombing and the fact that he sees you as 'safe' to lash out at.

How long have you and DP been together and what's DP's relationship with him like?

Sorry waffley, had migraine earlier so head is mush but I didn't want to read and run

He's understimulated. This is why he is good at nursery and not at home.

Toys are somrthing he NEEDS, entertainment and stimulation is a NEED. Don't punish him by refusing to meet his needs.

If he is throwing hard toys, then soft, small toys only.

How much do you play WITH him? As in, sit on the floor and talk with him about the toys that are on the floor, let him direct the play, move little cars around etc? How much do you do that?

Cassie a book that helped me a lot was "*The Explosive Child" Ross Greene
*
Although it is often recommended for SN children it is very useful for all angry defiant children. I almost cried yesterday when I was out for the day. Mine were so defiant and I think I manage them well most of the time.
You aren't alone.

How to talk so Little Kids will listen £9.09 delivered from Book Depository, or they may have a copy at your local library.

How do you respond to the toddler who won't brush his teeth? The preschooler who pinches the baby? The child who throws everything she can reach? It's hard to be a little kid. It's hard to be an adult responsible for that little kid. And it's really hard to think about effective communication when the toast is burning, the baby is crying and you're exhausted. This book will help readers do just that. Organized according to everyday challenges and conflicts, and including real-life examples and the series' trademark cartoons, this book is a survival manual of communication tools

Neutrogena It's called willful or spirited, which are other words used for bratty, spolit and unpleasant.

And you are a judgemental cow who sits behind a screen and happily calls a 2 year old child names. You are probably a bully and self righteous bitch in RL.

PugonToast - I object to the term 'poor parenting'. If I was a poor parent then my eldest child would be displaying worrying and unwanted behaviour and he doesn't - the complete opposite.

It isn't about 'poor parenting'. No child is the same and no child respond the same as any other child - certainly as my children are! It's about trying to find the right approach for the child's needs. Being fair isn't about treating people the same; it's about treating people in the manner that they need'.

You said he didn't speak until he was 2 - does he have trouble expressing himself still and maybe gets frustrated? May be an idea to have a word with GP or HV to see if he can be assessed somehow just for your peace of mind ... if he's outside alone and spitting on cars, he appears angry and if he doesn't know you're watching, so therefore not doing it for attention, it could be frustration. Don't worry and stop blaming yourself - you didn't cause these circumstances and even if you felt okay, dealing with two little children is very hard

Cassiebabie

Let's just put all this into context

You and your son are survivors of domestic violence. Your son was born into a violent household. Whatsupport have you both had for this?

He wasn't speaking at two, and has been referred to Speech and Language Therapy. How is this progressing? Do you have a reason for his delayed speech or has this been lost in a haze of babies and new partners?

Spitting and "don't know". He's not being evasive or lying to you, he's spitting because he's either getting a lot of attention for it, or it's enjoyable to have wet things. Try placing a washing up bowl of soapy water in the garden (use baby bath), and give him a load of water safe things to wash, and a tea towel. IGNORE the spitting. Completely. He's getting a lot of feedback for spitting in a life that doesn't seem to contain much feedback.

Tantrums and slowness in public. This is normal and age appropriate behaviour. Yes, your friend's daughter stands nicely next to her. Your son doesn't do that. Both are normal. I imagine a lot of fuss is made when he kicks off.

He is seeking input. He is a little boy who has not had a lot of joy from conversations in his short life, so he is seeking PHYSICAL input. He NEEDS water play, messy play, playdough, kicking, throwing, bike riding, jumping, rolling. It's your job to provide him with a situation in which he can play like that. Taking these stimulations away is like taking away a meal for bad behaviour - it's cruel and will result in worse behaviour in the long run.

He has a water tray in the back garden pp. No support for the DV. it's just being swept under the rug

Contact Women's Aid, you both need support.

Can you put your hand on your heart and say your new partner loves him?

And what happened with the speech therapy?

I agree with the recommendations for The Explosive Child. All children are different, and sometimes different parenting strategies are needed. The harder I impose boundaries on my daughter, the worse she will behave. If I said to her that spitting on something would result in it being taken away, she would spit on it straight away. I don't know if it is impulse control, or anxiety (almost like she would rather lose it than live with the fear of losing it). If I go easy on her, she relaxes and is better behaved. I am not saying your son is the same, but just that sometimes being stricter isn't the solution.

Also, keep in mind that people do not post their bad days on social media. Don't be fooled into thinking that everyone else lives in some kind of perfect Playschool world! Toddlers are really, really hard work. A toddler and a baby is particularly stressful. Give yourself a break - you have a lot on your plate right now!

Op, it's very difficult to advise without seeing him and the situations but the delayed speech and the violent household when he was very young would suggest there could be more going on. I would recommend speaking to a gp and/or a child psychologist. Try and film his tantrums/meltdowns to show exactly what is happening. Do so without him noticing.

A lot of what you've said is normal behaviour but there's an awful lot of it and some of those things like the smothering of his baby sister isn't at all normal and needs immediate investigation.

Well done for saying no and sticking to it, but it sounds like you need some more support as in many ways it's not working. FWIW I have also refused to hold hands with a child who demanded, screamed and yelled at me about it- in the same way I would refuse to do other things if that was the behaviour.

Yup new partner a thousand percent loves him, treats him incredible like he is his own. Partners family love him too
Salt said there was no issues, he was put under their care as I was worried he has no speech at 2. We've undergone tests for hearing to see if that was the issue and no that was fine. Time and nursery has made his speech come on immensely, they don't see any further issues. They've obsevered him in nursery and said he is a polite, talkative, happy child

He sleeps after 7 until about 6 usually. Can be like 7am if we've been out the night before
Sorry I'm struggling to answer everything
I did contact woman's aid twice when I was in the middle of the DV and nobody got back to me. I was sexually assulted by my ex and it was at that point I threw him out.
He is very manipulative towards me though and I feel like I have to play by his rules or he will do something awful.
Ex moved in around october, so about 6 months after the ex had left

I also have quite a full on and emotional DS - now 5 and similar in that he is always really well behaved at preschool / school etc. I do think they take it out on the people closest to them and save up the good behaviour for others. I'm also not with his Dad and have a new BF so I know those changes can be tough for them too (not the DV side though - that must be incredibly tough for both of you).

I wonder if you're in a bit of a cycle where you give consequences - loss of toys or naughty step and he feels it happens so often he just doesn't even bother or is deliberately naughty as he thinks "what's the point, toys will just get taken anyway". I think I'd just tell him you won't be taking toys away for the rest of the week. The removing them doesn't seem to be working so what have you got to lose? If he spits on them, just say neutrally "we don't spit on our toys, here's a cloth to clean it". I'd also do lots of sitting on the floor playing with him, chatting to him etc. As much positive attention as possible ( although that must be hard with a baby too).

Also, lots of love and cuddles, even if he has been really naughty all day. We always do stories and cuddles before sleep so that the day always ends on a good note. I never use them as a threat/consequence.

I've recently bought this book: www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B007VDHAP2/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1&tag=mumsnetforum-21. It's for 3-13 yr olds so your DS is at the lower end but she gives ways to adapt for litte ones. It's really easy to follow and gives lots of examples. I've only read the first section which is about descriptive praise but it has already made a difference. You basically describe what your child is doing right, a lot, through the day.

Even if you really have to search for the good behaviour, just describe any little thing that is OK and name what is good about it for example:

DS, you aren't spitting on your toys - that's playing nicely

DS you have played with DP for 5 minutes without hitting once - very calm and gentle

DS you brought your sister a toy - that's kind and helpful

DS you're walking holding my hand and not screaming - that's very sensible

It feels ridiculous to point out behaviour that should be totally normal and not special but it does work and really reinforces how they should be behaving.

I think you might just have to keep going. Keep slogging through it, make sure you are giving good attention to the things you want to see, and hope it gets better.

Bare these two things in mind.
'A bored, understimulated child is a badly behaved child. Taking away his outings and entertainment is setting him up to fail.

This will take a long time to improve so DON'T PANIC if there seems to be no improvement. Look at the situation again when he is four.

A bonus third thing - sometimes kids that age struggle to verbalise their feelings, and it can be very helpful if the adults can kind of talk them through it. ie, "I can see that you are quite cross that we have to leave the park. It's sad when we have to leave things we like. I get sad too. But we need to go home for lunch, so we have energy for playing later!"

Banging - you said this

cassiebabie it is hard and as a teacher I always have parents who are a bit  when I tell them their child is adorable at school and cooperative when they are the complete opposite at school.

I do think a lot of the time it has to do with the parental approach to discipline and interaction

Here you ARE blaming the behaviour on parenting approach - you aren't referring to a good parenting approach are you?

I know all about that fair isn't equal and equal isn't fair. I am responding to your comment above and making the point that sometimes this is nothing to do with parental ability and all to do with the child releasing their tension at home

I haven't read the whole thread but just wanted to add- im currently reading the book 'toddler calm' and finding it very useful to help me manage my toddler's behaviour. It is written to help adults understand why they act the way they do and explains that punishment often doesn't help negative behaviours.

He's had an awful lot of change in a short amount of time. Moving a new partner in within 6 months of his dad leaving is quite quick in itself. But if you look at it from his point of view:
Dad leaves around April(?)
New partner moves in October
Baby born February(?)
So in less than a year he's gone from seeing mummy treated like shit by daddy (is ex dad?) to a new man in the home to a new baby in the home. It's overwhelming for you I bet, let alone him. His response has been to let out the emotions he can't handle/that are overwhelming him (toddlers have emotions they just can't express them the same) by behaving badly. You are perhaps yourself stressed and overwhelmed so don't respond as well as you could (does not make you a shit parent), he begins to feel the only attention he gets is when he's 'naughty' so does it more and it becomes a cycle.

Yes he has a big garden with slide and sand and water table. A swing and playhouse. Won't play with any of them will he play with them if someone plays with him?

You mentioned as well he has play time with you or partner every night I think you said. What about in the day?

I really think you need to get out though having a baby (also by section) 2 months ago and toddler myself I appreciate it's a challenge and if you are feeling shit it's even more of a challenge. Can you go to a stay and play at the children's centre perhaps? At least it's a supportive environment. It's crap now it's summer as lots is off but most children's centres are still putting on some stuff and it's not long til september.

Children's centres also have trained staff who can come into your home and give you a hand with some strategies. May be an idea as it will be tailored for you and him and will give you someone to go to for advice. Might feel uncomfortable but I think unless you take potentially uncomfortable action now it's going to get worse.

I do think you need to try and play with him a bit more. I've been guilty of not doing this but have made the effort the last couple of weeks and it's really helping. Also try not to get angry with the spitting behaviours or even the hitting. Redirect, explain calmly why he shouldn't behave that way but the strategies you are using at the moment aren't working so there's no harm in trying a different more gentle approach.

I hope you don't feel I'm saying you're a bad parent, it sounds like you have had a shitty time lately and your mum doesn't sound useful. Well done on having the guts to go no contact. Children don't come with a manual and the expectation that we should just know what to do is rubbish.

I find it helps to take a moment when my toddler is having a meltdown and see him as the still tiny kid he is, with an immature brain that can't handle things like I can... I feel sorry for him and my anger lessens and I'm far more able to give him what he needs. You and your son sound like you've had a rough time. He's not an enemy even though their behaviour can make you feel they are

There is a lot of good advice in this thread. My DS (3y2m) has a short fuse but is learning to control his temper.
This is what works for us;
At least 30 mins outside morning and afternoon (his baby sister sits in her chair or in a sling). One is nature based as walking by the beach or through wood calms him down and he sets the pace and we either play a game (hunting for pirates/looking for colours etc). Interacting and encouraging imagination helps.
The other will be at home in the garden and he'll play while I do chores around the garden (we've started pot gardening and he loves digging in the pots).
If he loses his temper, we reassure him that it is OK to feel angry, and he can tell us when he's upset/grumpy. If he throws things, we remove him from the scene, sit with him and calmly say that he doesn't have the right to do that and it makes us upset and angry. Then it's a hug for a minute before he is taken back in to say sorry. If he hits anyone he has to say sorry. If he does it again (normally to me or DH) then we loudly say we don't want to play which he doesn't like and we go into another room for 3 minutes.
We also make sure that we occasionally role play being angry (pulling a upset face and saying we're grumpy/angry) and he gets to play at helping us feel better.
We praise him when we can see he's struggling with his temper but making the effort to calm down/not hitting.

It's not an easy fix but it has worked much better than I hoped. He lashes out perhaps once in every 15 grumps and that's going down.

I would say toys away for an hour is too long at that age - 2 minutes would work better.

The other thing is being strict about food. His behaviour is noticeably worse when he snacks and doesn't eat well.

And don't forget to look after yourself too!

Thank you all
I have been much kinder to my son today, I've even attempted a messy play with him He got bored of it after 5 minutes so I moved onto drawing and colouring and he got bored of that too!
He enjoys his swimming, but it can be almost £15 once you include buses and the money to get in so that's quite expensive and not something I can do long term

Thats great, you sound much more positive than you did this morning :)