AIBU to think men should not be allowed in female prisons?

[SmileEachDay]

https://fairplayforwomen.com/prisons-safe-space

This seems interesting and factual...

But eating what about 'L'ian Huntley? He IDs as a woman.

PricklyBall

I think you just assumed someone's gender there. Tch.

Threads like this are an echo chamber of people agreeing with each other. Perhaps I was stupid for daring to have a different opinion

Massive kudos though for sticking with your opinion and not being bullied off from the typical mumsnet feminist pile on.

What irritates me is the constant notion that women are delicate little flowers and need protection, even those who've committed horrendous crimes. I wish those that bang on about women's prisons realise that male offenders will identify to get to the female estate, not for the A* raping possibilities but for the easier regime. Simply make women's prisons as hard as mens and that'll sort most of it.

Simply make women's prisons as hard as mens and that'll sort most of it.

Why are women's prisons easier?

Genuine question.

I may have been wondering whether I'd get corrected, Datun. Would have been interesting.

PricklyBall

Lol. Sorry. My subtlety is on the blink!

That's why PricklyBall whenever I worry that I might be on the "wrong side" in this debate it only takes me a short exposure to the arguments of the other side to think "well, one thing I do know - that side is definitely the wrong one".

I genuinely would like to know how the regime and protocols in women's prisons differ to men's.

People working in them certainly have a view that women can be pretty bad. Yet they're still perceived as a soft option for a man.

Is it due to the fact that women, in general, are just considered less powerful physically, so a man would be less intimidated?

Or are there actual differences in how they are run?

Perhaps naice would like to explain reasonably and logically why women would not be at risk from this proposed Self ID bill?

The poster (no gender assumed) seems to be more focused on insulting PP's rather than actually addressing the issue.

Maria Miller, when interviewed recently, admitted there might be a problem in areas such as prisons, refuges, hospitals, but had no solutions as to how we might deal with them. The discussions around the original private members bill did not even include representation from any women's groups at all. Women are now raising their voices to ensure that we are heard when it comes to any government proposal being put on the table.

If the woman who proposed this bill in the first place doesn't have a clue, what hope do we have that people might actually think about this stuff and take it seriously?

Freddy women's prisons are normally because they don't contain men. And as has been pointed out a few times males are the biggest perpetrators of violence both sexual and your normal punchy stabby kind. So should women yet again bare the consequences of male violence?

Looking at some of the previous posts I get the feeling that the additional punishment faced by male prisoners is not having access to female prisoners.

Datun. They're ran completely differently. In terms of rules etc. I'll find a link

Freddystarshamster

So women's prisons are easier because they've got women in them, not men?

And the answer to that is let men in them so they start to resemble a man's prison? Because although it's men who commit 98% of sexually violent crime, women's lack in this department must be addressed? By punishing them for it?

I'm not sure if that's how you meant your post to come across?

No man, trans or otherwise should be in a female prison.

If male prisons cannot accommodate transwomen, there needs to be a separate wing there.

Or are we also agreeing that transmen go to male prisons? Since mixing the sexes doesn't appear to be a problem.

Freddystarshamster

Okay. Sorry, I posted before I saw your most recent post.

Because I actually would like to know what the difference
is. Or whether it's simply a matter because women's prisons are full of women, the violence etc is limited to that extent.

Apart from anything else, even if only naice transwomen move to the female estate, is the worry of pregnancy (even taking rape out of the equation and assuming consensual sex) not a concern? Do the people whose views of women offenders are less than complementary have no concerns that these women may become pregnant on purpose for an easier life?

typical mumsnet feminist pile on.

What does a feminist pile on look like exactly?

It sounds as though you're using feminist as an insult, but I'm sure that can't be true?

As a woman that works in these establishments, I can say it is a real nightmare when we have trans women in. However as a woman who has experienced sexual trauma I am of the view that allowing someone with a penis into a female prison is a big fat no.

I used to be very vocal about trans rights, until I realised that most trans women wish to keep their penis.

Datun. It's PSO 4800. It covers things such as women being allowed to wear their own clothes regardless of IEP status (men aren't) I can't do a clicky link but if you Google it it's not restricted/sensitive

Why are women's prisons easier?

Genuine question.

They aren't easier. However the security is lower, because women are far less likely to be convicted of violent crimes. They are a lower risk to the public.

The regime is also different fruit

I wish those that bang on about women's prisons realise that male offenders will identify to get to the female estate, not for the A raping possibilities but for the easier regime.*

Yet every so called transwomen who has been moved to a women's prison has been a sex offender. I'm sure that's just a coincidence though.

Bold fail

Freddy

From what I can tell, the profile of a female prisoner is different to that of a male prisoner.

They appear more vulnerable from the get go. Higher risk of attempted suicides, a massively higher risk of self harm, more mental health issues, more substance reliance, foreign nationals have a higher incidence of being coerced or trafficked into their crime, hugely higher histories of domestic or sexual abuse, a less favourable outcome on release in terms of employment, two thirds are mothers, many single mothers, the huge issue of where their children go, etc. Their crimes are statistically far less likely to be violent or sexual in nature. It's advised that they don't share transport with male prisoners because of the intimidation that arises on the way to prison.

Whilst incarcerated, women apparently form relationships along 'family' lines, whilst men form a hierarchy. Men's incarceration is characterised by violence, women's incarceration is not. I'm not saying women can't be violent, it's just not so much of a theme.

I'm also not saying there aren't vulnerable men in male prisons. But the nature of the vulnerability is different.

Treating the sexes differently seems to be because of the nature of the prisoners.

I fail to see how changing the dynamic would be any benefit, whatsoever. It would certainly put the women at an additional disadvantage and expose them to further abuse.

I have skim read a few things, including your link. So I'm completely open to comment in case I've misinterpreted anything?

FerretsAreFeminists

Indeed. You don't see headlines proclaiming that a cross dressing accountant has gone down for cooking the books.

BarbarianMum Really? You're really concerned about the safety of those who broke the law? The law which protects people? really?!