AIBU to think men should not be allowed in female prisons?

[SmileEachDay]

https://fairplayforwomen.com/prisons-safe-space

This seems interesting and factual...

Margaret exactly. I came to post something very similar but probably less eloquent.

She can't rape due to the misandrist laws

Misandrist laws? That's a joke, right?

Where are you getting that stat from naice, everywhere I can find quotes the 99% figure:

sapac.umich.edu/article/196

You said that you were happy for the fear and extra risk (which will be caused because there is a real risk) to be part of their punishment. So as much as you may back track or obfuscate you advocated rape and fear of rape as a punishment.

The reason men are most likely to be raped is because they are imprisoned with men. Putting women at risk as well is not the answer to that problem.

Naive "Because prisoners are separated by category"

But there are very few women who do commit series crimes. Almost all violent crime is committed by men so female prisons are not used or designed for use by people with the strength a d criminality of men, IMHO.

"Women are often complicit in these crimes. They are as disgusting as the men. If some of the women I have had contact with spend the rest of their lives sleeping with one eye open then it seems a little like poetic justice."

So what you are actually advocating is that women 'complicite' on male crimes should actually be punished more than men, and should risk repeated rape or inpregnation which men will not risk?

I have very little sympathy for anyone involved in violent or sexual crimes at all. But I still think that makes and females should be separated on prison.

You sound very cold and very anti women. Should the men also be sleeping with one eye open? How can that be arranged?

I think your view of prison is pretty warpped.

You say you caught for safe spaces, just not for criminal women?

Aind your denial of a pay gap and implied denial that men are currently (and for last 5 millennium or so - but hey things can change) more violent than women, are all rather telling.

It sounds like you don't like women much, It seemed you don't care about female prisoners safely so maybe you don't care about this issue for that reason.

And if you are still reading, just for the record, women are totally equal to men but society is fashioned by men, so women do need protection from men. I'm surprised that is a news flash to anyone!

The reason men are most likely to be raped is because they are imprisoned with men. Putting women at risk as well is not the answer to that problem

well put, Twatyer

You were fighting for not caught for..

naice men are the purportraitirs of most violence, and almost all sexual violence so yes I will blame them.

I want all people to be safe in prison. I don't want men or trans women in with women. It is partly a safety issue but also a privacy one. the prison service is going to need to accomodaye these make a and not at the expense of women.

Your dealings with criminal women appear to have made you feel women do not deserve safely.

You may think what you were fighting for was equality, and you may think you won, but look around at women and you will see the fight goes on.

Your comment about saving computer equipment over prisoners is vile so I won't be engaging with you further.

I don't think the people who write for sites like that know how much psychological therapy transgender women have to go through before they're recognised as women. It's not just a man saying he's a woman to get cushy treatment.

But current proposals around Gender Reassignment legislation are proposing just this.

Your comment about saving computer equipment over prisoners is vile so I won't be engaging with you further.

So, you're so determined to have the last say, you make a comment like that?

There is a world a of difference between being a righteous RF on a website where you're well known and can see which way a thread is leaning vs those who have experience in areas which would leave your idealistic mind reeling.

I think there are two reason for our differing mindsets. One is the generation gap. The other is your idealist response vs mine which is based upon professional understanding.

However, feel free to "not engage" and defend women everywhere simply because you all have cunts.

Feminism was about equality not segregation. We fought against segregation not for safe spaces and trigger warnings.

Hmmm, I was a "Women's Libber" in the late 70s/early 80s at university (and before). Yes, equality/liberal feminists argued for women to have equal rights/pay etc to men. I can remember the time when women weren't paid the same as men doing the same job.

But ...

There was also a lot of thinking & activism around the idea that "A woman who aspires to be equal to a man lacks ambition" to quote one badge/graffiti slogan. That feminism wasn't just about women being "equal" to men, but was about a wholesale, radical transformation of society so that the binary model of norm and Other was not white, male, heterosexual norm, and colour, female, gay was the Other.

I am a woman. I don't want to be equal to a man in the sense of being forced to become like a man - I don't want to have to take on aspects of a violent, oppressive patriarchal culture to be considered "equal." I want to dismantle that patriarchal society.

And get rid of gender roles - of requirements to be "feminine" or "masculine." Women being "equal" to men is but one step on the way, not the end of the journey.

Naice

Under the proposed new GI legislation, there will be nothing to prevent any man (not a trans woman necessarily) filling in a form and saying they are a woman and as such, want to be housed in a female prison.

How are you going to stop men taking advantage of this and using it to harm women - in this case female prisoners - of all categories?

Again, this isn't the world that feminists of my generation fought for but it is the reason we say we're no longer feminists.

NaiceHam you may be just few years older than me, but I suspect we are of roughly the same generation. In your talk of a generational divide, you don't speak for me. Leave me out of your "we" please.

"Equality of opportunity gave way to entitled opportunity of outcome"

WTF has that got to do with not wanting males in female prisons?

However, feel free to "not engage" and defend women everywhere simply because you all have cunts.

My only advice is never, ever to play poker. You'd be rubbish.

We are not asking for quotas of females/males in female prisons. Just no males

Men in prison are the demographic most likely to be raped. Should all male prisoners be in solitary confinement? Should they not go to prison in case they are?

That will be because they are men - who are statistically more likely to commit a sexual crime. So you're suggesting that we even it out and put men in with women too? Equal opportunity abuse?

Every now and then a poster pulls back the curtain and says "look, this is who I really am". At least this thread was useful for that.

There is a world a of difference between being a righteous RF on a website where you're well known and can see which way a thread is leaning vs those who have experience in areas which would leave your idealistic mind reeling.

That's right. Because the demographic 'woman' or 'mother' can't possibly contain all the lawyers, barristers, prison officers, politicians, biochemists, coders, MPs and journalists who are active members of this site.

Datun don't be daft.

We are all silly, naïve, youngsters who can't possibly know our arse from our elbow.

That is the ONLY POSSIBLE REASON for our opinions.

Maybe don't break the law and you won't end up in prison its a prison, not a place of luxury and choice. Your freedom is taken away from you soon as you step in

Yes starflame the price you pay for your crime is the deprivation of your liberty. Not your safety.

Starflame

How is that relevant?

This thread again, yes mumsnet we get it you dont like transwomen (but you never seem to care about transmen female to male transition).

It really is starting to get disgusting, this sort of thing would not be tolareted if you replaced transwoman with lesibian or with black or disabled why should this be allowed for trans people (in this case just transwomen)

A real eye opener of a thread.