To want the other parents/nursery to do more?
PeoniesGinandBags · 27/07/2017 09:08
Okay so here goes...
DC goes to a lovely local nursery that I've always been happy with. Great staff, lots of activities etc. About 6 months ago another child started at the nursery - M.
We've had the usual ups and downs of nursery as children adjust, start/stop biting etc etc so I'm used to dealing with 'issues' and appreciate (being a teacher myself) that no child is perfect, two sides to every story etc.
However... M is a bloody nightmare.
On 3 occasions M has assaulted my child - yesterday getting hold of DC's hair with two hands and hitting it off the dinner table. These are not isolated cases. Two weeks ago I was collecting DC from nursery and I witnessed M casually walking over to another child, pushing them over and walking off. A week prior to that there was an incident involving M putting her hands around the neck of the same child she pushed over.
When I've spoken to nursery before about M they told me that it's 'in hand' and that 'someone was coming that day to do an observation of her'. I don't know who this would be?
To compound the issue (for me anyway) I witnessed M having a temper tantrum as Mum was collecting them from nursery. M wanted a toy that belonged to another child and M's Mum simply said to the other child, "Can you just let M have the toy for the night?" followed by lots of other attempts to 'reason' with M.
I'm sick to the back teeth of DC doing what they should, reporting things to the staff, not shouting/hitting back but to be honest enough is enough. It just seems that M is out of control. I can see there are issues for her but things seem to be escalating to an alarming degree.
Any advice? I called nursery this morning ahead of dropping DC off and said that I wanted to escalate my concerns, that we had had a bad night with DC after what had happened yesterday etc and I'm waiting to hear back from them. I have suggested (but don't know at all if this would be helpful) that I want a meeting with a senior member of staff at nursery as well as M's parents so that we can discuss strategies for a way forward (to be blunt - stop pandering to the tantrums and see the effect this is having on others). ARGH!!! I'm hopping mad but trying hard not to be unreasonable.
YogiYoni · 27/07/2017 09:14
Yabu. You can ask how staff are going to ensure your child is safe. You absolutely cannot ask to meet with m's parents to criticise them or their child. Your issue is with the adults in charge not with a small child (presumably aged three or under?)
The visitor was probably an educational psychologist.
mohuzivajehi · 27/07/2017 09:15
It sounds like M has SEN which may be yet to be diagnosed. Yanbu to expect that your own child will be kept safe but yabvvvu to expect to be involved in meetings to discuss M's behaviour, it is really none of your business. If M has additional needs then the nursery are legally required to make reasonable adjustments to meet those needs. If the level of adjustments required to include M in the setting become unreasonable then the nursery can decide that they cannot meet M's needs but it would be totally inappropriate for you to be involved in that decision. Stick to verifying that your own child is safe and well cared for. If you don't think your child's needs are being met remove them to another setting. Keep your nose out of M's situation.
BarbarianMum · 27/07/2017 09:18
Meet with the nursery and ask them for a detailed plan of how they are going to keep your child safe. Forget about M - bluntly, she's not your concern. Don't be too quick to rush to judgement regarding her parents either. Remember you have no idea of what is going on.
Glumglowworm · 27/07/2017 09:19
you have no right to know how nursery is dealing with any child except your own, and no right to judge other parents
Yanbu to want to know how the nursery will keep your child safe, but that does not mean meeting with the other child's parents to tell them where they're going wrong
minisoksmakehardwork · 27/07/2017 09:21
Yanbu to ask nursery to ensure your dd is safe and cared for. But you've said nursery have someone coming to do observations so trust me, they are very well aware that there are aspects of M's behaviour which exceed 'norms' for her age group.
As for her mum asking another child to give up their tou, yes, far from ideal. But when you have a child who, at that moment is fixed on that particular thing, you will realise it can be incredibly hard to reason with them, for the child to understand it isn't theirs. Mum might have asked just on the off chance and then she has an easier time herself. Otherwise she may well be subject to the same behaviour herself at home. It isn't alway as simple as being more disciplined with a child, or 'beating it out of them'.
If you are a teacher in mainstream school I suspect you cannot have been teaching all that long otherwise you may have seen the impact of SEN on some children, their classmates, their families. Either that or you have been extremely lucky.
BarbarianMum · 27/07/2017 09:22
"When I've spoken to nursery staff in the past they said that M needs 1-to-1 care because of her behaviour issues. They then told me that they could not do this as they have no funding for it."
They should not be discussing M with you. But as they are then be aware that they should be funding it - from their reserves if necessary - whilst they apply for funding from the LEA. I'd be quite unimpressed that they're not tbh. Do they really not have a bit of money in the bank?
Notreallyarsed · 27/07/2017 09:23
DD had an issue with a wee lassie in her nursery class last year. DD would come home covered in bruises, scratches (deep ones) and bite marks. I spoke to the nursery several times, just to explain that DD was terrified and was having nightmares. I also explained to them that I understood the other wee girl had major problems at home and that her behaviour wasn't her fault, that I wasn't trying to demonise a 3 year old, I just needed to speak up for my child who has autism and severe anxiety (the anxiety is as a result of being battered by the wee girl).
Nursery were great, they got on top of it by involving the wee lassie's SW (I know because her dad told me), and she was moved to the school nursery up the road where she's thriving, which is great for everyone, she's happy and settled and so is DD. I think it sounds in your case like M's mum needs to work with the nursery to either get a dx (which sounds like it's necessary) or to find strategies to help M.
PeoniesGinandBags · 27/07/2017 09:24
TBH, and this isn't right at all, in my experience of teaching, things only get done (because of a lack of sodding funding) when parents start to complain.
And I know I'm probably being unreasonable but I do feel like saying - just discipline the child!!! She strangled someone FFS!!!
Fruitcocktail6 · 27/07/2017 09:26
It would be extremely inappropriate for you to attend a meeting with nursery and the parents. What on earth gives you the right to do that? Any meetings about M's behaviour should be confidential between the parents and nursery.
The someone coming to do an observation is probably going to assess if there is a possibly of SEN. In my nursery, that would be our Inclusion Coordinator from the LA. If they thought there were further issues to be explored it could then be an educational psychologist.
The nursery won't get funding for 1:1 support for M without a lengthy process of visits from the LA, paperwork, reports, observations.
But none of this is your business.
AuntMarch · 27/07/2017 09:26
The nursery staff should not be discussing Ms needs with you either. I would be furious as her parent if I knew they said that.
I have worked in nurseries for 10+ years. In almost every cohort there has been a child with clear additional needs. These needs are rarely diagnosed before nursery age.
The nursery are doing the right things if people are coming into observe and believe me they will be finding the situation extremely stressful, but until a diagnoses is in place there will not be the resources for 1:1 care in most private nurseries. (But that is not to say there couldn't always be someone close to M)
Unfortunately these things take hell of a long time as there are fewer and fewer professionals to come in and observe. I've seen a child recently observed and be reffered for further assessment and finally diagnosed ASD. It took 18 months. Now they can apply for funding. They may or may not get it.
Captainj1 · 27/07/2017 09:28
I had a similar situation when my DS was 3-4 with a boy in his class at nursery who was, frankly, feral and allowed to be so at home (he was one of 7 children and lived on a farm and was allowed to run riot). Over the course of 9 months or so he bit and hit my son repeatedly, completely unprovoked - once he walked up behind him and bit him on his shoulder and it pierced the skin in 8 places. Despite all this my son - who is very placid in nature - did not seem particularly upset. He was hurt and cried at the time of course, but he accepted that this boy was naughty and could see it being dealt with by nursery (their SEN person took responsibility for strategies for him). It upset me greatly at the time but I loved the nursery and trusted them to do what was required, and most importantly, it didn't seem to affect my son's enjoyment of nursery. He was there full time, 10 hours per day, so that was the most important aspect for me. There are naughty children everywhere unfortunately. I was always grateful that my DS wasn't the perpetrator...
BarbarianMum · 27/07/2017 09:29
Do you want them to discipline her to make you feel better, or to stop the behaviour? What if discipline doesn't help her behaviour, or even makes it worse?
I'm not saying they don't need to do something but I'm a bit that you think 2 minutes on the naughty step is necessarily the answer here.
AuntMarch · 27/07/2017 09:31
That said, her mum was very unreasonable to expect another child to just hand over a toy too. It sounds like she really needs some support. Meeting with staff and any other professionals involved would probably help her. But you should not be involved in it.
I do see why you want to and how awful it is for your child but it isn't like meeting with the parents of a bully- this girl isn't in control
JenziW · 27/07/2017 09:43
YANBU to expect your child to be safe and protected from this type of behaviour. Also not unreasonable to WANT to know what's being done either, I would want to know as it's difficult from the outside to appreciate that things are being done but I would also expect they wouldn't tell me.
I wouldn't expect a meeting with the child's parents. I would expect a meeting with at the very least your child's key worker and if they don't manage to reassure you then move up the management chain. You need assurances that they can manage to keep other children safe while looking after M too. To know how they plan to do that is reasonable. I would put my concerns in writing when requesting to meet about it.
MrMessy · 27/07/2017 09:44
YABU in regard to wanting a meeting with the parents. If I had been called into nursery at the say-so of another parents who wanted to tell me where I was going wrong in my parenting I would tell them to bog off.
It is fine to request a meeting with the nursery to talk about your own child, but I think you are forgetting you are just another parent at the nursery and not actually the child's teacher in this instance.
PeoniesGinandBags · 27/07/2017 09:47
In the 4 schools I've worked in, yes, we would get all parties involved together to work through the issue. This isn't a 'having a go' session but merely an approach (that in my experience has worked) to try and come up with strategies that are going to work for everyone.
And no, to be blunt, based on what I have seen when Mum picks M up (completely different approach to Dad), I don't feel reassured. Nursery can do all they can (just like teachers in a school) but if the parents aren't on board and following through, what's the point?!
My previously happy child has started to wet the bed, is scared of going into the pre-school room when M is there and doesn't understand why this keeps happening to them and other children in the room.
DressedCrab · 27/07/2017 09:48
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sunshineandrainbowsparkles · 27/07/2017 09:51
YABU I'm afraid, you can't pass comment to the school on another child's parenting, or lack of. You certainly can't approach said parent and criticise their parenting! You have to trust the school to deal with it in the right way, or take action to remove your child if you feel they are not taking the appropriate course of action. When it comes to 3&4 year olds most nurseries are quite lenient and understanding with the children. Last week both my dd (attend same nursery 14m apart) got bitten in school by the same child. It happens.
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