To want the other parents/nursery to do more?

[PeoniesGinandBags]

Okay so here goes...

DC goes to a lovely local nursery that I've always been happy with. Great staff, lots of activities etc. About 6 months ago another child started at the nursery - M.

We've had the usual ups and downs of nursery as children adjust, start/stop biting etc etc so I'm used to dealing with 'issues' and appreciate (being a teacher myself) that no child is perfect, two sides to every story etc.

However... M is a bloody nightmare.

On 3 occasions M has assaulted my child - yesterday getting hold of DC's hair with two hands and hitting it off the dinner table. These are not isolated cases. Two weeks ago I was collecting DC from nursery and I witnessed M casually walking over to another child, pushing them over and walking off. A week prior to that there was an incident involving M putting her hands around the neck of the same child she pushed over.

When I've spoken to nursery before about M they told me that it's 'in hand' and that 'someone was coming that day to do an observation of her'. I don't know who this would be?

To compound the issue (for me anyway) I witnessed M having a temper tantrum as Mum was collecting them from nursery. M wanted a toy that belonged to another child and M's Mum simply said to the other child, "Can you just let M have the toy for the night?" followed by lots of other attempts to 'reason' with M.

I'm sick to the back teeth of DC doing what they should, reporting things to the staff, not shouting/hitting back but to be honest enough is enough. It just seems that M is out of control. I can see there are issues for her but things seem to be escalating to an alarming degree.

Any advice? I called nursery this morning ahead of dropping DC off and said that I wanted to escalate my concerns, that we had had a bad night with DC after what had happened yesterday etc and I'm waiting to hear back from them. I have suggested (but don't know at all if this would be helpful) that I want a meeting with a senior member of staff at nursery as well as M's parents so that we can discuss strategies for a way forward (to be blunt - stop pandering to the tantrums and see the effect this is having on others). ARGH!!! I'm hopping mad but trying hard not to be unreasonable.

AIBU???

[YogiYoni]

If It persists then the parents have to remove their child. This is very fair



It is not fair. Not at all. Luckily, in the U.K. it is recognised in law as not being fair and shouldn't happen.

[AwaywiththePixies27]

Yanbu, where I am this type of behaviour would not be tolerated.

The school are aware of it and see dealing with it. As well as bringing in someone to observe the child.

Doesn't sound like they're tolerating it to me...

They're working on it. Just not in the lets put the kid in the towers kind of way.

[KatherineMumsnet]

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[nancyclancy123]

You have every right to ask how they are keeping your child safe but that's it, the rest is none of your business.

I can't believe you're actually a teacher!!!!

[Whosthemummynow]

You're a teacher? And you expect to be told details of other people's children?!

[Kleinzeit]

What usually happens is the parents are addressed and work together with the school and the child is monitored. If It persists then the parents have to remove their child. This is very fair.

I assume you mean, if it persists despite the school's best efforts to get support and to handle the behaviour correctly? Or does your school drag its feet on the paperwork to get external support, or refuse to follow specialist advice on behaviour management strategies, and just waits until enough incidents have happened to justify chucking the child out? I trust not, because that wouldn't be at all fair. Though it certainly happens.

[Msqueen33]

I'm really shocked if you're a teacher and hope to god neither of my dc with asd and ADHD come into contact with you. Or that you ever face the challenges that come with having a child with Sen.

Sadly there needs to be more education for people such as yourself around child with Sen or potential Sen.

I'm sorry your dd is upset and scared about preschool but have you talked to her about difference and challenges some children face?

Lastly no you don't get to meet M's parents and tell them how to "discipline" their child. Speak to your school and get on a training course for yourself asap!

[PeoniesGinandBags]

So an update - even though I can appreciate that few people share my point of view (which I might not have articulated all that well but hey ho)...

Nursery have just called me. They have arranged a meeting next week for me, the nurser manager and the parent's of the other child to speak about what is happening at nursery.

As for those who have seen fit to comment on my own job as teacher - either on this post or via messages - thank you but no thank you. This is my child and so yes, I am fully aware that I am less than objective here.

Finally there are lots of people assuming that behaviour problems seem to be outside the control of an individual/their family. Interesting but not entirely accurate in many cases. There is such a thing as free will! We can't reduce everything to a set of 'symptoms' or a condition. Maybe, just maybe, there is some behaviour that's caused by social factors. But what would I know (as many people have pointed out!)

Thank you for your comments posters x

[YouTheCat]

I'd not put my child in a nursery so quick to share another child's information and put their parents through this kind of crap. I bet the parents aren't even aware of what absolutely shockingly bad practice this is.

And you, clearly, could do with updating your safeguarding training.

[Spikeyball]

If they have actually called a joint meeting that is seriously bad practice.

[Msqueen33]

I hope you're less offensive in person to these parents. I suspect you'd say when my dc was having a meltdown about something that it's "free will". Please educate yourself because you come across very ignorant.

[YogiYoni]

Please, please don't go ahead with this meeting. Share your concerns with nursery by all means, but don't meet with the parents and share your judgment on their 'social factors' with them. Just don't.

I actually can't believe nursery are doing this. It's wrong on so many levels. I've been on all three sides of this equation (teacher, parent of disruptive child, parent worried about child being hurt) and I can't see how this meeting would be helpful for any of them.

As for comments re your profession, no one has suggested that you could or should be objective - of course your child is your number one concern - but you seem to have little understanding of additional needs and that is very worrying given your profession.

[Spikeyball]

I'm sure you will enjoy sharing your non existent expertise and experience.

[PeoniesGinandBags]

And P>S - yes, I am a teacher and fully supported of all of my learners - both those with IEPs and without. The funding formula massively varies from one setting to another and also by region. There are countless examples of where children in one setting do not attract the same 'money' as one in another purely based on the geographical location of where the setting is or where the child lives.

Just to clarify - I was not expecting ANY personal details about child but do believe (and I have the right to an opinion!) that as a parent I am also in a position where I am empowered to best serve the needs of my own child too. Asking what strategies are in place is more than appropriate and being left to feel helpless as I am simply telling my child to not respond, to just tell someone etc simply is no longer working for my family. We have rights too.

And if you read my post you would see that at no point did I suggest I thought it was my place to tell someone how to discipline their child... I was merely expressing frustration at the situation and felt that at some point if things didn't change I was worried I would just shout at the Mum (which of course isn't right). In my opinion though I do think (and have found) that sitting down together to work through joint strategies can help. For example, what have the parents found to be the 'best way' for children to respond to M's behaviour? Is there anything that works at home?

I'm pretty appalled that people have felt able to comment on my role as a Mum and as a teacher. I came on here for your views, yes absolutely. And yes, I can appreciate (as will most of you) that objectivity is difficult to maintain when your own child is the one who has been repeatedly affected by the actions of another child.

I'm going to stop commenting on this now because to be quite honest I wish I hadn't bothered. Thank you for those that have taken the time to comment - whether 'in support' or I suppose to criticise. I can only assume that you are coming from a well intentioned place as I am too.

[Florriesma]

I'm not sure what a joint meeting will achieve either since the dc are 3/4 and not 13.
I do wonder if it's a way for a bad nursery to look like they are doing something to manage the situation when they aren't.
Although if you are right and the other child should be on a one to one and isn't then in your position this is the angle I would be pushing since they aren't giving m the support needed and consequently are unable to look after either child effectively.

I have heard of numerous stunts pulled by schools to look like they are being reasonable and supporting the child with sen whilst doing bugger all except damage them and their education.

[AwaywiththePixies27]

If It persists then the parents have to remove their child. This is very fair.

That's not what happens at all. The main objective is to keep the child in mainstream school if possible. It doesn't mean immediately removing a child if it persists. I have only ever known one parent be asked/advised to consider placing their DC in another school setting where they could accommodate their needs better.

[nancyclancy123]

You were asking for other people's opinions, perhaps you shouldn't if you do not like people not agreeing with you??

[YouTheCat]

How awful for the other parents to have to go through this! What, exactly, do you expect to gain from this meeting, other than intimidating those poor parents with your 'superiority'?

[AwaywiththePixies27]

I'm really shocked if you're a teacher and hope to god neither of my dc with asd and ADHD come into contact with you

I'm not. It's attitudes from some teachers like this that stop children from getting adequate support in place.
One of DSs old teachers vehemently disagreed with the ASD assessment we were pushing for for DS. Not only that, they told the Paeditrician in a meeting that DS couldn't have it as he didn't present like the other kids who needed support.

You'd be amazed at how many overnight experts on autism and adhd and other special needs there is.

[Notreallyarsed]

I'm glad MNHQ stepped in here, because it was and is needed. Some of the attitudes towards people with disabilities on here are utterly staggering and I can only hope that it's keyboard warrior syndrome and you wouldn't be so ignorant and offensive in RL. Every child, irrespective of their level of need, deserves to be included and to be nurtured. Nobody, not one person said that OPs child doesn't have the right to be safe. But some of you seem to think the only way to do that is to write off/remove a child, rather than finding strategies to manage/prevent the negative behaviour (which helps OPs child too!).
Where do you all propose the children who don't suit your NT ideal go? It's not about removing kids, or sending them away (hence my NIMBY comment earlier), or about allowing anyone to get hurt, but failing to recognise (or understand even when it's been explained to you) that kids with SN may need a different approach to change behaviours is unbelievable in this day and age. Each child learns based on their needs and capabilities, surely they should all be taught along those lines too?

[AwaywiththePixies27]

Maybe, just maybe, there is some behaviour that's caused by social factors. But what would I know (as many people have pointed out!)

Well, very little unless you're also a neurodevelopmental consultant in your spare time

[Spikeyball]

As I said before joint meetings are bad practice but some schools have very poor practice as regards to sen. When ds was in mainstream one school tried dubious practices on with us until I pulled them up about it.

[Notreallyarsed]

You'd be amazed at how many overnight experts on autism and adhd and other special needs there is.

MN is full of them apparently, or so you'd think reading threads like this. It's not like we as parents actually know our kids eh? Noooo, we're just shit parents who obviously are far inferior to the know it all Mums who never ever get anything wrong. Pffft. I wish that people knew it's them who make life harder for our kids.

[AwaywiththePixies27]

They have arranged a meeting next week for me, the nurser manager and the parent's of the other child to speak about what is happening at nursery.

Struggling to believe this one, especially if observations are being made with a view to a possible diagnosis / further assessment. What purpose would dragging the parents in solve?