To want the other parents/nursery to do more?

[PeoniesGinandBags]

Okay so here goes...

DC goes to a lovely local nursery that I've always been happy with. Great staff, lots of activities etc. About 6 months ago another child started at the nursery - M.

We've had the usual ups and downs of nursery as children adjust, start/stop biting etc etc so I'm used to dealing with 'issues' and appreciate (being a teacher myself) that no child is perfect, two sides to every story etc.

However... M is a bloody nightmare.

On 3 occasions M has assaulted my child - yesterday getting hold of DC's hair with two hands and hitting it off the dinner table. These are not isolated cases. Two weeks ago I was collecting DC from nursery and I witnessed M casually walking over to another child, pushing them over and walking off. A week prior to that there was an incident involving M putting her hands around the neck of the same child she pushed over.

When I've spoken to nursery before about M they told me that it's 'in hand' and that 'someone was coming that day to do an observation of her'. I don't know who this would be?

To compound the issue (for me anyway) I witnessed M having a temper tantrum as Mum was collecting them from nursery. M wanted a toy that belonged to another child and M's Mum simply said to the other child, "Can you just let M have the toy for the night?" followed by lots of other attempts to 'reason' with M.

I'm sick to the back teeth of DC doing what they should, reporting things to the staff, not shouting/hitting back but to be honest enough is enough. It just seems that M is out of control. I can see there are issues for her but things seem to be escalating to an alarming degree.

Any advice? I called nursery this morning ahead of dropping DC off and said that I wanted to escalate my concerns, that we had had a bad night with DC after what had happened yesterday etc and I'm waiting to hear back from them. I have suggested (but don't know at all if this would be helpful) that I want a meeting with a senior member of staff at nursery as well as M's parents so that we can discuss strategies for a way forward (to be blunt - stop pandering to the tantrums and see the effect this is having on others). ARGH!!! I'm hopping mad but trying hard not to be unreasonable.

AIBU???

I should say that this wasn't in the mainstream section of the school, had it been mainstream I would have acted differently and probably would have involved the police if the child concerned had acted deliberately and with full understanding of the consequences of their actions.
What I guess I'm trying to say is each situation must be looked at and assessed individually, and jumping off the deep end, using emotive language and involving outside agencies such as the police isn't always helpful.

You also didn't answer my question re. how old your son was when there was police involvement regarding his issues with other children. Like I've said, we do involve our school's officer in cases where students need to be reminded that they could be held criminally responsible but that's in a secondary setting...because they are criminally responsible.

Parents going off the deep end and making a situation bigger than it needs to be don't help anyone, least of all their own child

What do you mean by this?

Are you saying the hurt child's parents need to suck it up and not complain?

No, what @Notreallyarsed is saying is that the response should be proportionate. She decided not to go to the police in the case of her child being attached by another student because she uncovered an error on behalf of the school and how they were supervising said child compared to how they should have been. She reported the school for negligence to the appropriate bodies instead.

Attacked*, sorry.

@zzzzz and at what level of education were the HT, SENCO etc open to involving the police if necessary? Secondary?

For goodness sake! Can't you just go home and thank your lucky stars that you won't drive home sobbing because your child had
a meltdown at pick up time and some judgemental Mum of a typical child thought she was "having a tantrum"

By all means make sure the staff are keeping your child safe but for goodness sake, have some empathy. This other mother has a life time ahead of her of parental complaints, of staff phoning her and telling her who her child has lashed out at today. Of seeing every child invited to the birthday party instead of her precious M.

Just thank your stars, offer her some support and teach your child that some children find it harder to follow rules, to understand sharing or turn taking etc and that they can't control their temper very well and hopefully your child will grow up less judgmental.

Yes I would call Ofsted. Who would investigate and lead on any necessary prosecutions. The same way I would call the HSE if someone died via an accident at work and they would investigate and lead in the prosecution. The same way i would call the RSPCA if an animal was being neglected. The police do not police everything. Lots of government bodies have legal powers. You use the appropriate one. In this situation, that would be Ofsted.

@zzzzz yes and the police are a silly option as @PurpleMinionMummy has helpfully explained. No doubt you're also one of those parents who goes straight to the headteacher when your child is given a break-time detention because you don't understand how issues are dealt with and escalated. Many an eye-roll in your direction no doubt.

Ofsted will only investigate once all of the internal complaints procedure has been exhausted.

It's a bit harder than that though zeeboo - her own DD is already in an anxiety state about it and wetting the bed. So the OP doesn't have much to thank her stars about either.

In our kerfuffle over the nursery's mis-handling of the situation we've kind of lost sight of the OP doing what's best for her DD. Talking to the other mother might make the OP feel better at the time (though it might not) but it is not likely to change the other child's behaviour, nor help her DD cope with it. Whatever happens the nursery staff will need to maintain safety and also help the OP's DD feel better. I hope they're up to it.

Thank you @yeahokay for clarifying what I meant, I'm glad you did. I've been out all afternoon and need to catch up on the thread. I haven't once implied that you just need to "suck it up" but when people begin talking about calling the police about 4 yo and also removing them from a nursery setting because they don't like their behaviour it descends into farce.
Kids at 4 are finding their way in the world, it is our job as adults and as parents to give them coping strategies to manage behaviour, how to make positive choices, to reinforce positive choices and to put in place whatever help/support might be needed in the event of the child having SN/SEN.

t is our job as adults and as parents to give them coping strategies to manage behaviour

Yes we all agree - but when it's your child dealing with the fall out - and I have yet to see any victims given any support - then it's much harder to be all 'never mind' When they are wetting the bed - crying they don't want to go to school, getting anxious about putting uniform on etc

It's always about the aggressor

GreenTulips my kids have been the victims many times, incidentally it's usually NT kids attacking them because they're "weird" or "freaks" (their words not mine) and I have many experiences of having to go to school/nursery and explain that my child is having a really tough time and suffering because of bullying.
However I'm also well aware that the best way to prevent behaviour which is aggressive/violent is to put the work in with the child being aggressive/violent to prevent reoccurrences of the negative behaviour. Why on earth people can't see that is utterly beyond me. Unless it's now acceptable to just write a kid off at 4 and send them away? Why don't people understand that by working with the child who is lashing out/hitting/biting/whatever else the nursery/school ARE acting to protect other kids too, in a proactive way, because it means the other kids won't be getting hurt!

And my kids have had support from nursery/school when they've been hurt. If parents storm in demanding whichever child doesn't suit what they want be removed immediately it's no wonder they feel unsupported, because what they're asking for is ridiculous and unfair.

Why on earth people can't see that is utterly beyond me

I'll tell you why - becaus Ethel class DD was in - it went unresolved for 6/7 years (she left after 4 - as did others - some friends remained)

How long do you think parents should subject their own children to harm to enable the school to 'work' with the child in question?

Well this is depressing reading.

Just a slight side note but please remember those of us with asd/adhd and other disabilities are more commonly the victims of bullying than the perpetrators.

GreenTulips and you'd propose what? Kicking a child out immediately? If your child's school isn't doing what they should be doing, there are other ways to complain, as previously stated on this thread. Why on earth in 4 years you didn't involve one of those I don't know. But one bad situation doesn't mean that you can write off every child who acts out!
Sashsash sadly that's very true!

Everybody complained - the kids the staff the parents - LA not interested

Ive heard he no longer attends any school - I'm not surprised he must have suffered badly - so I didn't write him off - but his school did

FWIW - DD wasn't physical ally harmed unlike some of the boys (kicked in the head - smashed head on concrete - strangulation)

At what price does inclusion continue and the safety of others becomes paramount?

There's has to be a line

And LA should provide it - without question