At wits end over 16 year old son

[OverTheHammer]

I have previously posted about a fight which broke out between violent son and DH. Most of you told me to call the police on him.

It was quiet for a few weeks following that as they just didn't speak to each other. Then Thursday night he went to cinema, didn't home home until gone midnight despite knowing the rules on being home before 11. I repeatedly text him as the clock crept towards 00:00 and just got excuses back. DH refused to go to bed before he got home despite being at work next day. He finally rolled in at 00:10 and instead of going straight to bed, decided he needed a drink and multiple trips to the toilet throughout the night, repeatedly waking DH up. Still he said nothing to him.

Then last night he came home at gone 11pm. At midnight he decided he needed to go outside for a cigerette. Rules are no smoking outside after 11pm so DH said he couldn't go out. DS launched into argument mode and said the rule was bullshit as he'd seen DH and myself out smoking after 11pm. We don't even smoke! So DH explained this only for DS to continue arguing that DH was full of shit etc etc. I woke up, shouted at DS to get to bed and stop being cheeky. DS launched back at me saying that DH is an argumentative wanker who hadn't spoken to him for two weeks and now wanted to "go" with him. To cut a long story short the row continues well past midnight ending in DS storming downstairs and getting in DHs face shouting "you want to go again?" Referring to previous fight night. He also accused DH of "assaulting" him last time which is untrue.

DH walked over to him, told him to get to bed only for DS to shove him into the wall. I lost my shit and stormed over to him, shoved him back and shouted at him to get to bed. DS started squaring up to me before saying "fuck this, I'm off" and stormed out (remember it's past midnight). I text his dad to say he had to go there just for his dad to say "I'm at work" and nothing more.

He came back half hour later and went to bed.

I'm at my wits end. I don't want him living here anymore but he has nowhere to go. What the fuck do I do.

[VelvetSpoon]

The OPs other thread about her DH (where she's worrying about spending £15 more than agreed when they have £2k a month after bills and food) is also pretty illuminating...

[sevensisters7242]

The more I read this the more sorry I feel for your son. You've imposed - or more likely your husband has imposed - ridiculous rules upon him then you've chosen your husband over your son when he's rightly rebelled against them. What kind of mother chooses a man over their son?

[TheWitchAndTrevor]

I'm talking over the years source. Not just this instance.

But yes this instance too, the petty rules, shouting, walking up to him and telling him to get to bed.

I agree the walking into sounds more then that. If they were talking he was clearly in ear shot no need to get closer to shout, is there, unless it was intended as an intimidating march up to him to be in his face.

[TheWitchAndTrevor]

It may not be your definition of squaring up to someone.

But it is threatening, intimidating, bullying behaviour.

[MoonfaceAndSilky]

The OPs other thread about her DH (where she's worrying about spending £15 more than agreed when they have £2k a month after bills and food) is also pretty illuminating...

Yes, it seems she is frightened of him and has to ask his permission for everything she does. He is obviously a control freak and consequently lies in wait for the DS to screw up, so he can 'have a go'.

[Dukesofhazzard]

I remember your last thread and thought your son was really out of order, he showed no respect for anybody, he assaulted your DP, assaulted your other DS previously and I wouldn't have blamed you for ringing the police or sending him to his dads.

On this occasion, I think your son didn't really start anything. At 16, a curfew of 11pm is quite early for him I think. I'm quite impressed he did come home and that he replied to your texts. I would go over house rules with him and change the curfew for him. I'd also allow him to go for a last cigarette before he goes to bed.

As for him pushing you, that is a disgrace and he should be told if he puts his hands on anyone in the house again, you'll have no choice but to send him to his dads, no question.

[Justgivemesomepeace]

I have a teenage daughter and a dp who isn't her dad. I'm trying to imagine this playing out in my home. A couple of things are sticking out for me- sounds like rules for rules sake. My conversation would be more along the lines of 'What time do you think you'll be back? Well let me know if you running late so i know you're ok.' If she doesn't, which is rare, I'll ring/message her and as long as I get a reply I know she's ok. He replied. That's good. Plenty wouldn't. You knew he was ok. Why did it have to go any further than that? The complaining about him getting a drink is looking for trouble. How would you feel if someone questioned you about getting yourself a drink at midnight. Ditto the smoking outside. Pick up with him what the actual issue is. If it's the noise/ being inconsiderate, then that's the rule. Don't be noisy and inconsiderate. Smoke at the bottom of the garden and be quiet about it. The issue with me on that one would be smoking in the first place and remembering to lock the door.
Looking at the big picture- he was late back but you knew he was ok, he got a drink, went for a fag. Was a pain going to the loo a few times. He's 16! I'd be happy if that was the worse that happened with my 16 yr old! He could be up to far worse. The violence not acceptable ever. Sounds like a really negative relationship when does your husband ever try and have a positive interaction with him? These need to far outweigh the negative interactions if he wants to have any say in disciplining him. To not speak to someone for 2 weeks, then the next interaction to be confrontational, I don't really know what other kind of response you expect from your son. My dp rarely interjects with these matters unless really necessary, and invests lots of positive time with my dd. He takes her to the cinema, tries to talk to her about her friends, hobbies, school etc. When he does have to deal with her regarding an issue that's cropped up, it's not taken brilliantly but much better than if he hasn't invested the positivity. Have a Google of Emotional bank account. That explains it better than me. Sounds like your dh is massively overdrawn and your son is being set up to fail with all these rules. I can't think of any specific rules i have apart from treating people with respect and being kind. Everything seems to come under that umbrella for me.

[Katiekatie37]

I disagree when you've avoided someone for weeks then start trying to exert control and arguing with them and "walking over" when shouting. It's clear intimidation , almost enticing him into another fight. His mum lost her shit pushed him and he left the house to calm down then then went to bed!

[Violetcharlotte]

I've got 2 teen DS (16 and nearly 18). They are hard work, but I'd say pick your battles. I'm a single Mum which I think makes it easier as I decide the rules, but a few of my friends are having similar issues to you with their DH and DS. They seem to fight for position of 'alpha male' at this age.

Has your DS just finished GCSEs and on holiday now? If so, I would back off and give home some leeway. My DS and his friends are out several nights a week til gone midnight. I have work the next day so go to bed and leave them to it. He doesn't take drugs or smoke, they're just hanging out. I know it seems late to us, but teens body clocks are different to ours and they come awake at night!

As long as he does the jobs I give him during the day when I'm at work (empty the dishwasher, put washing out, etc) I pretty much let him be. This may sound lazy, but from what I've seen from friends, when you try and come down hard on them it just makes their behaviour worse, and everyone is miserable.

[ellestyle]

Sorry to say this Op but i think you and your partner are creating the problems here. Don't ever expect a teeenager to stick to such rigid rules without expecting a backlash. An 11oclock curfew for a 16 year old seems a bit out of the ordinary, and what's the big deal about him having a drink and a fag. Give the lad a bit of space and get off his case is my advice. Have rules but also have a bit of flexibility.

[KungFuPandaWorksOut16]

Maybe the rule is after 11pm because that's when they go up to bed and maybe he's left the house unlocked before.

She didn't ask you do you agree with her house rules.

OP maybe look into some kind of course that will help you with how to desecalate these situations or how to deal with anger outbursts.

Some posters will tell you, you need to constantly praise him, tell him you love him and sing hymns with him whilst he attacks members of the house and threatens people because he is your son.

It's quite amusing in one breath a poster is saying he is an adult he shouldn't have rules like smoking at times and entering the house but then in the next sentence how you can't kick him out he's only 16. Which is it? An adult or a 16 year old.

[OverTheHammer]

Not had chance to read all replies but a quickie response - the curfew is 11pm as he has a habit of getting into trouble outside. He's mouthed off at people and almost been attacked and has been banned from Tesco for stealing. He was also thrown out of a shopping precinct for messing around causing a nuisance.

The 11pm smoking rule is because he often forgets to lock the back door so if we're in bed, back door is left open all night.

DH is far from violent. Last time he was punched four times in the face and throttled. He didn't retaliate other than to restrain DS.

Last time I told him I loved him? Yesterday as I tell him daily.

[sevensisters7242]

No, she didn't ask whether we agreed with her house rules, but she did ask for help with her problem, which in my opinion are being caused by her rules (or more likely her husband's rules). Why is she allowing her husband to discipline a nearly adult son, to the point he tells him when to go to bed? It's ridiculous. I haven't read all of the other thread, but I have very little sympathy for women who don't stand up to men like this. The problem with her son is of her own making, because she chooses her husband and his stupid rules over her own flesh and blood.

[Ontheboardwalk]

OP I'm sorry you're going through this, it can't be a nice atmosphere at home for any of you.

We all know that teenagers want to push boundaries and rules, I'm sure we all did it ourselves. With a bit a help and guidance most of us, hopefully, started to conform eventually.

Your other threads about your DH do concern me. Re the 'I overspent by £15’ thread. Who pays for your sons food and essentials? Does your DH resent the cost?

Also I have no idea what the 'To tell fIL that his DS is a wrong un?' thread was about..

[Kigali04]

My sibling is the same age and we have stricter rules than OP which he follows.

1. Swearing at your parent is unacceptable
2. Hitting your parent is unacceptable
3. His parents work, if he's up at all hours he affects their routine and sleep

I'm so sick of the slack parenting perpetrated by parents these days.

If he can't respect authority in the home I.e his mother and stepfather.

How do you think he will out of the home. These are the same children who grow up to be aggressive and violent to their partners because they have learnt that you need to be like that to get your own way.

I commend OP and her OH for standing their ground. It's disgusting that he choked and punched her partner. I would have kicked him out for that alone, he has a father let him deal with it.

[Oliversmumsarmy]

I am not obligated to house someone who won't show basic respect and who hits people in our family.

That someone is her son ffs, her 16 year old son

But isn't that what the dh does as well.

In another thread the dh pinned the 16yr old to the sofa after the 16year old had apologised

[Justgivemesomepeace]

After your update don't bother reading my post. Regarding the smoking and locking the door, I'm afraid I'd be hiding the key when I went to bed. He would have to have his last smoke before I went up. Regarding the rest of his awful behaviour in general when he's out I'd be posting on number for advice so I'm no help. Sorry.

[Justgivemesomepeace]

Mumsnet, not number! 😮

[Violetcharlotte]

After reading your second update about your son causing trouble when he's out and about, there seems to be a lot more going on here than him staying out late. He sounds pretty troubled. Why is that? It sounds like w resents your DH. Does he feel pushed out? It sounds like he's got some issues and could do with some help. Have you thought about counselling?

[Violetcharlotte]

Actually OP I've just read some of your other threads and I think it's your DH that's the problem here!

[Oliversmumsarmy]

I suppose the question you have to ask yourself is if your dh had never been on the scene and you didn't have so many petty rules. Would he be like this.

[corythatwas]

I think it's obvious from reading other threads that the dh is not the cause of the trouble all on his own. The ds clearly also is troubled and has been for a long time. His bio-father is a violent man. He himself has displayed worrying behaviour since a much younger age.

The question is not so much one of who is to blame, more one of how this can be managed in the best possible way. One that sets the best example possible to the ds, and hopefully keeps him safe (and society safe from him!) a little bit longer.