At wits end over 16 year old son

[OverTheHammer]

I have previously posted about a fight which broke out between violent son and DH. Most of you told me to call the police on him.

It was quiet for a few weeks following that as they just didn't speak to each other. Then Thursday night he went to cinema, didn't home home until gone midnight despite knowing the rules on being home before 11. I repeatedly text him as the clock crept towards 00:00 and just got excuses back. DH refused to go to bed before he got home despite being at work next day. He finally rolled in at 00:10 and instead of going straight to bed, decided he needed a drink and multiple trips to the toilet throughout the night, repeatedly waking DH up. Still he said nothing to him.

Then last night he came home at gone 11pm. At midnight he decided he needed to go outside for a cigerette. Rules are no smoking outside after 11pm so DH said he couldn't go out. DS launched into argument mode and said the rule was bullshit as he'd seen DH and myself out smoking after 11pm. We don't even smoke! So DH explained this only for DS to continue arguing that DH was full of shit etc etc. I woke up, shouted at DS to get to bed and stop being cheeky. DS launched back at me saying that DH is an argumentative wanker who hadn't spoken to him for two weeks and now wanted to "go" with him. To cut a long story short the row continues well past midnight ending in DS storming downstairs and getting in DHs face shouting "you want to go again?" Referring to previous fight night. He also accused DH of "assaulting" him last time which is untrue.

DH walked over to him, told him to get to bed only for DS to shove him into the wall. I lost my shit and stormed over to him, shoved him back and shouted at him to get to bed. DS started squaring up to me before saying "fuck this, I'm off" and stormed out (remember it's past midnight). I text his dad to say he had to go there just for his dad to say "I'm at work" and nothing more.

He came back half hour later and went to bed.

I'm at my wits end. I don't want him living here anymore but he has nowhere to go. What the fuck do I do.

[Tisgrand]

I agree with Onhold OP, you seem to have no clue how to handle your teenage son. Why all the "rules" which clearly aren't working and seem designed to antagonise him? Have you ever asked him what he thinks would a fair time to come home, and then find a middle ground to agree on? Why on earth have a cutoff time for smokng outside, why not just say "listen, if you must smoke, and if you must smoke outside after 11pm, then please don't make noise or annoy the neighbours". Let him think that he has some control over his life.

Your DH sounds like a controlling arse. Your exDH just sounds like an arse. Your DS sounds deeply unhappy and you do not seem to want to make him happy at all. He needs to be protected from your agressive DH. Sounds like there is a long backstory here.

Remember, if you always do what you've always done, then you'll always get what you've always got. Maybe try a whole new approach and see what a difference it makes. Assuming your DH is onboard of course - I suspect he won't agree - he likes having "power" over a teenage boy. But please try it, for the sake of your long-term relationship with your son.

[TheFirstMrsDV]

Too many petty rules.
The more you have the more opportunities for him to break them and get into conflict.

Look at Non Violent Resistance Training.
Stop blaming a 16 year old for all of this.

I am speaking from experience and not judging you.

[corythatwas]

The problem Pengggwn is exactly the one outlined by NotVileStepmother in her last post. It is not just about what is right and wrong in the present instance. It is the fact that if the OP and her dh push through with logic and consequences at this precise moment in time there is a very good chance that they lose the opportunity ever to teach their son anything again. Is teaching him not to smoke past 11 an important enough battle to risk anything else that might come up in the next 2 years?

I am all for discipline and parents being in charge. But precisely for that reason I don't start battles I am not confident of winning: it gives them the wrong message.

[MoonfaceAndSilky]

Let him think that he has some control over his life

Exactly this.

[Chestervase1]

Pengggen but her husband is violent as well and often escalates and inflames the situation. However the poster has not suggested her husband leave.

[BoneyBackJefferson]

Assuming your DH is onboard of course - I suspect he won't agree - he likes having "power" over a teenage boy.

Yes, the DH is clearly enjoying being beaten up by a teenager. Or he is a man walking on eggshells trying not to inflame the situation who loses it when the DS escalates the situation

[waterrat]

When i was 16 i was often out all night so I think turning up an hour late is not too bad.

Please try to concentrate on deescalating and seeing things from your sons point of view.

When i was his age we didnt have mobile phones and nobody was texting me constantly if i was a bit late home. I really think it sounds like your husband is spoiling for an argument.

[waterrat]

Also im really laughing at the idea that smoking in your own garden quietly after dark is anti social. Only on mumsnet.

I dont smoke but my neighbours can do whatever they like in their garden if it doesnt involve loud music after midnight !

[keeplooking]

Take him out for lunch, just you and him. Talk. Tell him it's nice to have a bit of 1/1 time with him, even if you're not feeling it atm.Try and establish a connection. He's your child. You love him. He really won't know that unless you demonstrate it, and that will have a huge impact on him. Tell your dh to give you some time to try and deal with it and to back off.

I can't re-iterate it enough. If you have to, go through the motions of speaking to him affectionately, giving him a hug - even if he pulls away - acknowledging that the teenage years can be awful. Even if you are having to force yourself to do it, it might make a difference and reverse the downward spiral, and it will start to become the norm for you to relate to each other in a more loving way.

[Benedikte2]

OP the Local Authority has a duty to accommodate him if you throw him out and he is left homeless. LA's around the country have the problem of finding suitable accommodation for under 18s

[NotYoda]

You know what jumps out at me? He stormed out but came back half an hour laters. This is not some hardened criminal. He still wants to be safe at home. He hasn't got the courage of his convictions. He's not unreachable

[Chestervase1]

Great put him into care because he wants to have a fag in the garden at midnight and is 10 minutes late home.

[TheDevilMadeMeDoIt]

OP I remember your previous thread - I posted on it a couple of times.

For those saying he needs love not discipline, the last thread made it clear that this behaviour has been going on since he was six, that the OP and her DH have tried everything they can, worked with the school and outside agencies, loved him and supported him and nothing worked, he has just got worse and worse.

OP I think maybe you could relax some of the rules. A curfew of 11.00pm is perhaps early for a 16 year old (make it midnight?), but I understand what you're doing, you're trying to make sure he doesn't get into trouble, but if you ease up a bit it gives you a bargaining chip to ask him to change too.

But if he doesn't change, and continues to be violent, then yes you have to either report him to the police - as was pointed out in your last thread a criminal record at 16 will be wiped at 18 so it won't stay with him for the rest of his life, so this is actually a good time to do it - or he has to find alternative accommodation.

On the last thread some people were very critical of your DH for reacting the way he did to the previous incident, whereas many others, including me, felt he had already shown the patience of a saint. It sounds as though this time DH tried very hard not to escalate the situation to the point where it was you who had to intervene physically. You can't carry on like this. Again from the last thread (and this is all from memory, I'm not stalking you!) towards the end you said that you simply couldn't ask DS to leave, you couldn't bear the thought of him having nowhere to go. It was pointed out that you were putting him before your family, and expecting them, particularly DH, to just put up with it.

What I'm saying is, the advice - or at least the majority of it - on your last thread stays the same. You have to take decisive action. Remember the saying 'if you do what you've always done, you'll get what you always got'. Now is the time to do something different.

[ghostyslovesheets]

OP is there a service like this available for you? www.stbasils.org.uk/how-we-help/our-services/family-mediation/

contact your local authority and find out - support for you all might help

[waterrat]

My god. So irresponsible for people to encourage the op to make a 16 yr old homeless.

[OnTheRise]

NotEvil has given some really good advice.

Treat your son with love. Give him reasonable rules, and reasonable consequences, and accept there will be times that rules are broken or forgotten about--and that when this happens the correct response is to talk it through once everyone is calm, not shout at him and threaten him. Stop being violent towards him, and make your husband know he is not to "square up" to your child, or threaten him in any way.

Things will get better but you have to lead the way for that to happen.

[waterrat]

The local authority will just find this kid a safe and suitable place will they? Because there is no housing problem in this country and vast amounts of support for teenagers without parents to help them? Would be laughable but its awful to read people spouting such nonsense.

This boy was late home and tried to smoke in the garden so his step dad started a massive row. Do not make this a make or break issue OP.

[MoonfaceAndSilky]

You know what jumps out at me? He stormed out but came back half an hour laters. This is not some hardened criminal. He still wants to be safe at home. He hasn't got the courage of his convictions. He's not unreachable

Yes, and he replied to OP's texts - hardly the actions of someone totally out of control. He is not beyond help not yet anyway

[corythatwas]

Pengggwn, it's very easy to say "draw the line", but any responsible person needs to calculate the costs first. Including the possibility that the ds will not just quietly mend his way, but that the next step will be throwing him out of his home. What is the next step after that?

[Neverknowing]

Maybe take away his key. The only way for him to get back in is to follow your rules? He has to be home by 11 or you won't be able to let him in as you'll be in bed. He will always find somewhere to sleep don't worry! He'll have friends etc or go to his dads.
It's extremely unfair on your husband that this is happening and it'll end in divorce. I feel bad for you op but your son is basically an adult now and if I were you I'd say he needs to get his own place. If you 'make him homeless' the council will house him and both your lives will be better.

[corythatwas]

Once they have thrown the boy out, they will have no control over what rules or laws he flouts. And as others have pointed out, social services and housing are so stretched there is unlikely to be anybody else to pick up the baton if his parents let it drop.