At wits end over 16 year old son

[OverTheHammer]

I have previously posted about a fight which broke out between violent son and DH. Most of you told me to call the police on him.

It was quiet for a few weeks following that as they just didn't speak to each other. Then Thursday night he went to cinema, didn't home home until gone midnight despite knowing the rules on being home before 11. I repeatedly text him as the clock crept towards 00:00 and just got excuses back. DH refused to go to bed before he got home despite being at work next day. He finally rolled in at 00:10 and instead of going straight to bed, decided he needed a drink and multiple trips to the toilet throughout the night, repeatedly waking DH up. Still he said nothing to him.

Then last night he came home at gone 11pm. At midnight he decided he needed to go outside for a cigerette. Rules are no smoking outside after 11pm so DH said he couldn't go out. DS launched into argument mode and said the rule was bullshit as he'd seen DH and myself out smoking after 11pm. We don't even smoke! So DH explained this only for DS to continue arguing that DH was full of shit etc etc. I woke up, shouted at DS to get to bed and stop being cheeky. DS launched back at me saying that DH is an argumentative wanker who hadn't spoken to him for two weeks and now wanted to "go" with him. To cut a long story short the row continues well past midnight ending in DS storming downstairs and getting in DHs face shouting "you want to go again?" Referring to previous fight night. He also accused DH of "assaulting" him last time which is untrue.

DH walked over to him, told him to get to bed only for DS to shove him into the wall. I lost my shit and stormed over to him, shoved him back and shouted at him to get to bed. DS started squaring up to me before saying "fuck this, I'm off" and stormed out (remember it's past midnight). I text his dad to say he had to go there just for his dad to say "I'm at work" and nothing more.

He came back half hour later and went to bed.

I'm at my wits end. I don't want him living here anymore but he has nowhere to go. What the fuck do I do.

[Notevilstepmother]

Penngwyn I'm absolutely not criticising the op for the smoking rule, or anything else.

I'd normally agree with you, under normal circumstances that would be a reasonable rule.

I totally agree with you about drawing a line and sticking to it.

However where I disagree is where the line should be drawn in this particular case.

My opinion is that in this case drawing the line in a different place as I have suggested, midnight curfew, smoking anytime but quietly, not waking people up in the middle of the night and NO VIOLENCE, is more than reasonable, and more likely to succeed.

If it was my son this is what I would do, and believe me, any further nonsense would then be clearly countered with "I compromised, I gave you a later curfew, I treated you like an adult and you are STILL being ridiculous. Hopefully it won't come to this, but if it does then he has clearly had his chances and still decided to behave badly.

Sometimes you have to meet half way. Sometimes you have to pick your battles. Smoking is one I'd never pick, simply because it does calm them down.

Teenagers are like overgrown toddlers, their brains are rewiring just like toddlers do. However with a teenager you can't just physically pick them up and put them elsewhere, so you are better off doing the equivalent of stepping over them and ignoring their tantrum.

DS in this case is being provocative at times and is best ignored. If that means changing the rules to prevent all out war with DS and DH it is probably worth it. It isn't always weakness to back down, particularly if it's planned and not reactive.

[BoneyBackJefferson]

This boy was late home and tried to smoke in the garden so his step dad started a massive row.

Some serious cherry picking going on there.

[ghostyslovesheets]

what about at 15? 13? 11?

when do you stop parenting and start kicking them out?

I do get it - believe me I have a very tall teen prone to verbal and physical outbursts - she did move out for about 6 months to her dads because things were difficult and she CHOSE to do that

The door is always open to her and she recently returned - she knows the rules, she kicks against them if she kicks too hard there are consequences that are enforced but fair - with fair warning

I work in social services - mainly with the 16+ team - life for teens in care is generally shit and often leads to criminalisation (through care homes reporting to the police and kids getting charged - for breaking things etc) - don't do this to him just yet!

[corythatwas]

Of course it's his responsibility. But if the parents managed to find better ways of getting him to comply without becoming violent, then that would be 2 years gained during which they could influence him for good and he might calm down and become more amenable.

After all, he is not as out of control as some youngsters featuring on these threads: he does text when going to be late, he does come back after having stormed out of the house, it might be possible to get him to settle down with a little less rigidness and a little more good humour.

Otoh if he is thrown out now, yes it will be his responsibility. But it will be the wider society who will have to live with it if he ends up in bad company and takes to crime to support himself. And that may well be more of an inconvenience than someone smoking at midnight in nextdoors garden.

[MoonfaceAndSilky]

And what if it doesn't succeed?

And what if it does? It's at least worth a try, isn't it? All these rules and arguments have not worked, have they?!

[Oliversmumsarmy]

I have read your threads about your ds and the one about your dh.

I think you have a dh problem not a ds problem. It is not even just your ds your husband is not very nice to. Just because he does charity work doesn't give him the right to get arsey with other charities.

Why all the rules?

My mother would do exactly what you are doing even down to this is not your house.
I would come in late sometimes only a few minutes. And get the riot act read to me. So I just never used to bother with curfews as it wouldnt matter what time I was back there would be something wrong.

Your dh sounds like he just likes to throw his weight around everyone who disagrees or he thinks is in competition to him.

DH pushes DS onto the sofa and pins him down was not an appropriate response to what ds did.

[Chestervase1]

neverknowing the Council may well house him probably in a multi-occupancy sharing facilities. However who is going to pay his bills and for him to live. Is he going into full-time education or maybe look for a job. I really must say again that I think he is and has been defending himself.

[StaplesCorner]

Ah Pengggwyn, we meet again and yet another thread about a child or young person. And once more, those kids NEED to be shown who's boss eh? I can see you've hit a rich seam here as lots of people can't understand why anyone would risk a 16 year old walking out by telling them to find somewhere else to live - and they seem to think that if they explain it and reason with you, you'll take that on board ... .

Really its the OP we need to be concerned about. When will you be able to speak to your ex again OP, and do you really think your son would be ok there? Does he want to live with his Dad? If your DH wasn't on the scene do you think things would be better, or the same? You do realise that teenagers can be a nightmare don't you? Its judging what's reasonable, choosing your battles and seeing what you can ride out.

(Or as Pengggwyn says, you invite them to leave, obviously )

[corythatwas]

"Both his DM and his stepfather love him, but they have a right and a responsibility to ask him to do or not do certain things, and he needs to respect that."

Of course he does. But what if he doesn't? Are they prepared to have him end up on the streets where he is not likely to get any less violent?

[TheFirstMrsDV]

OP the Local Authority has a duty to accommodate him if you throw him out and he is left homeless. LA's around the country have the problem of finding suitable accommodation for under 18s

The OP's son is still a child. To be accommodated he will need to go into care. I can guarantee that SS will fight very, very hard indeed to NOT take responsibility for a child with two living parents who are able to care for him.

IF they did agree to accommodate him he would end up in a hostel even though this can be technically illegal. They don't have enough specialist foster carers as it is. Their first priority are children who have spent their lives in care and need preparation for independent life. They don't have the resources to step in and take over when things get a bit tough with a teenager.

There is nowhere for this kid to go.

This kid needs to be supported by his parents. How they do that is up to them.
Kicking him out and thinking SS is going to take over is not an option.

[MoonfaceAndSilky]

If he is a child, he needs to be under and accept being under someone else's authority.

He is not a prisoner, he is a teenager and should feel safe and loved in his own home.
He is going to kick off sometimes, he is going to rebel against the rules sometimes - he still need to feel loved and safe not threatened with being thrown out onto the streets. I still think the rules are too strict and the DH is too antagonistic.

[Oliversmumsarmy]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2969580-To-tell-fIL-that-his-DS-is-a-wrong-un?pg=1&order=

If your dh gets arsey with a 94year old little old lady collecting for charity I think your dh has bigger problems than your ds. I think it is your dh who needs to leave and maybe one day your ds might forgive you

[Flippingecktucker]

Your DH doesn't like your DS. DS knows this. Your poor boy. Be kinder to him. Relax your arbitrary rules, they are clearly set up to spark conflict with you both. Teach him how to be kind and considerate by modelling the behaviour.
I'm sure he knows you don't want him in your house any more.

[Flippingecktucker]

Your DH, by the way, is an absolute arsehole.

[ghostyslovesheets]

he will be accommodate most likely in 'supported independent living' which sound nice but in reality isn't terribly supportive or good at keeping young people engaged (generally not all of them) and he'll be housed with lots of other 'troubled' teens - which will probably not impact on him positively

he will be in care - and previous posters are correct - SS will fight very hard against this