At wits end over 16 year old son

[OverTheHammer]

I have previously posted about a fight which broke out between violent son and DH. Most of you told me to call the police on him.

It was quiet for a few weeks following that as they just didn't speak to each other. Then Thursday night he went to cinema, didn't home home until gone midnight despite knowing the rules on being home before 11. I repeatedly text him as the clock crept towards 00:00 and just got excuses back. DH refused to go to bed before he got home despite being at work next day. He finally rolled in at 00:10 and instead of going straight to bed, decided he needed a drink and multiple trips to the toilet throughout the night, repeatedly waking DH up. Still he said nothing to him.

Then last night he came home at gone 11pm. At midnight he decided he needed to go outside for a cigerette. Rules are no smoking outside after 11pm so DH said he couldn't go out. DS launched into argument mode and said the rule was bullshit as he'd seen DH and myself out smoking after 11pm. We don't even smoke! So DH explained this only for DS to continue arguing that DH was full of shit etc etc. I woke up, shouted at DS to get to bed and stop being cheeky. DS launched back at me saying that DH is an argumentative wanker who hadn't spoken to him for two weeks and now wanted to "go" with him. To cut a long story short the row continues well past midnight ending in DS storming downstairs and getting in DHs face shouting "you want to go again?" Referring to previous fight night. He also accused DH of "assaulting" him last time which is untrue.

DH walked over to him, told him to get to bed only for DS to shove him into the wall. I lost my shit and stormed over to him, shoved him back and shouted at him to get to bed. DS started squaring up to me before saying "fuck this, I'm off" and stormed out (remember it's past midnight). I text his dad to say he had to go there just for his dad to say "I'm at work" and nothing more.

He came back half hour later and went to bed.

I'm at my wits end. I don't want him living here anymore but he has nowhere to go. What the fuck do I do.

[TheWitchAndTrevor]

I think rules should be according to age, you can't have the same rules for a 10,13,15,16,18 year old.

Yes He's not a full up grown adult, yes he still needs rules and guidance.

But if you are inflexible and ridged about things to the point of being pig headed, problems are going to arise, and once you lose control of your young adult there isn't much you can do to carry on helping them with guidance. As they will be in full rebellion mode.

[user1497480444]

when was the last time you told him you love him?

[endofthelinefinally]

Where is his brother in all of this?

[Chestervase1]

You seem to have an awful lot of controlling and petty rules. For example your son going to the cinema and having to be in by 11 pm. Does a few minutes either way really matter. He is also smoking outside. Personally I would be more concerned that he was smoking at 16. I also don't like the sound of your DH he sounds a bully.

[LexieLulu]

Doesn't matter if his age, rules are rules. I had rules at 18, until I started paying rent.

That's life.

I think you need to ask his dad if he can move in with him. He's going to get your DP arrested

[Onhold]

No one wants him. No wonder he's kicking off.

[Floofborksnootandboop]

I think your DH just wants an argument tbh OP.

Getting home at 10 past midnight isn't the best considering it was over an hour after the time he was supposed to get home but I'd make an exception since it was because he was at the cinema. To then complain he needed a drink and the toilet is pathetic and imo is nothing to get so wound up about.

I'm not even going to get started on not letting him out in the garden for a cigarette after 11

[FloatyCat]

I think pick your battles, the no smoking after 11, is this really important? I would let this one go, so long as he isn't going outside at 3am.
Going to the loo, waking your dh? Seriously, you can't stop someone going to the loo?
11pm home time - fair enough.
Violence - completely unacceptable.

[starbaker66]

Teens are soooo difficult and it sounds as if the situation is approaching critical...first thing to do is put your arms around him and tell him you love him. Might take the wind out of his sails (or it might not?). Next thing is to tell him you realise how unhappy he is, and that you are too. If it's appropriate/convenient to initiate a discussion - do it. Try to compromise and make sure you can demonstrate to him that you're giving as much as he is, try to meet in the middle? Pick your fights. What do I know, I'm just a Mom, but that's what I would do (have done). Teenage boys and their Moms...it's a tough road. Good luck.

[Chestervase1]

I also cannot stAnd all this "not his house" nonsense. No it's not but it is his home.

[corythatwas]

Being in possession of a just-turned 17yo son, I think NotVileStepMother puts it very well.

Of course, none of that justifies physical aggression, but it does sound as if things escalate very quickly in your household. This lad needs to learn how to de-escalate things, and that is something he can only learn from you.

First of all, I would probably be a little less rigid about rules, and above all prepared to think through (and maybe discuss with him) the rationale for certain rules. Is there a good reason for the not-smoking-after-11 rule?

Secondly, when he does break a rule, I would try to deal with it more as if he was an adult, and not start by shouting at him. Speak to him cheerfully, remind him of your agreement, make it easy for him to comply without face loss. Looking at my own son, who is an amiable enough lad but also keen on his independence, there are two things of which I am acutely aware:

there is no way dh and I can physically force him to do anything he doesn't want to do without somebody getting hurt- the situation must simply never get to that point

dignity and fear of face loss are very important to him- if I want him to do things my way he has to be able to salvage his dignity

[Floofborksnootandboop]

Can I also remind you, you are the adults. YOU need to take the right steps in getting help instead of complaining and doing nothing.

[user1497480444]

pengggyn

He is a child, he NEEDS to feel loved and wanted, that is the most important thing in his life. Not only will nothing be resolved between them unless he has this fundamental need met, but the damage done to him will be life long.

[AlmostAJillSandwich]

His dad is just as responsible for him as his other parent. If he's too violent to have at hoe and he's actually been threatening to you as well as your DH, i would honestly be insisting he goes to live with his dad. You've done the majority of the parenting and had him live with you for most of this, if you cannot cope anymore his dad is more than due to pick up the slack.

[user1497480444]

starbaker 66 - excellent post

[Katiekatie37]

It does sound like your DH is spoiling for a fight though. Why can't he go to bed till your son is home , when you've said they've ignored each other for weeks? Just to regain control/ have an argument? I don't think the way your DS is behaving is at all ok but your DH sounds like he's inflaming the situation. You need to all communicate more not just ignore him till he annoys you.

[WomblingThree]

Well for a start, why is he asking if he can go out for a smoke instead of just sneaking out like any other 16 year old ?

With the disclaimer that I'm not excusing his behaviour at all, your rules seem a little bit inconsistent OP. If he missed curfew on Thursday, then he shouldn't have been allowed out Friday. Otherwise what's the consequence? You acknowledge he smokes, yet he can't smoke when he wants one. It sounds like your DH likes picking arguments. He seems to need the last word. Why are you shouting at him? He's 16, not 6. Losing your temper just makes you look foolish.

Basically your son has learnt what buttons to press, and he's loving it. Scrap the pointless petty rules, crack down on the rules that matter, and get your DH to stay out of his face and act like an adult.

Where do you think DS is going to go if you ask him to leave? You don't want him and his dad doesn't want him either. I can't imagine that's a great feeling for a kid. He probably feels that as you don't like him anyway, he might as well be as bad as your DH thinks he is.

[Onhold]

People who spout the rules are rules and it's not his house bollocks have no clue.

You cannot control your children by spouting shit like that and expecting them to always comply without any conflict.

[user1497480444]

why say "mewling" that is just a way of belittling what people are saying. It makes no difference saying "of course she loves him" - does he KNOW that? it would seem not. So he has to be MADE to know that.

[corythatwas]

Pengggwn Sat 15-Jul-17 10:44:35
Katiekatie37

"Perhaps not, but I think she sounds at the end of her tether. The lad responds to her setting boundaries either by ignoring them or by wig aggressive. Should she just tell him fine, he can do as he likes at home, because she is scared he will be violent again?"

No, she should teach him how to conduct an argument, and how to give way in an argument, without losing face or temper. She should teach him how to negotiate rules without making other people feel threatened and uncomfortable.

You don't model that by waking up and immediately starting shouting at someone.

II am, if anything, rather stricter than the OP in some respects: I doubt ds would feel comfortable smoking in front of me. But I get my results through de-escalating, not through escalating. And through talking to him like an adult. Because I want him to think of himself as an adult, and I want my teaching still to be relevant to him when he is an adult. Which is only just around the corner.

[Lasagna]

Op, I've just read through your previous thread about this and was shocked. You violent son? Do you mean your son who gets violent in response to an adult man "squaring up" to him? Sorry but your DH is the problem. Even if your son is the one who started the fight the responsible adult thing to do is NOT FIGHT BACK. Which is the opposite of what your DH did, wasn't it?