To think a lot of parents simply don't hear their children's noise...

[user1485342611]

and sometimes restaurant managers, librarians etc need to be more pro-active about stepping in?

I was in a restaurant yesterday having lunch with a friend. A mother with three children was sitting nearby. The toddler was banging a toy car repeatedly on the table, the little girl was talking in a really loud shrill voice and the slightly older boy was shouting loudly to be heard over her. The noise was deafening but the mother seemed really calm and so used to it that she didn't even notice it, or realise it was driving people mad.

The manager said nothing.

AIBU to think that he owed it to all his other paying customers to ensure that one table weren't allowed to create a disturbance and ruin other people's meals, and he should have sorted the situation somehow.

I've seen this a lot in restaurants and other public places and wish there was some kind of policy in place that enabled those in charge to tactfully step in when children are becoming loud and disruptive.

"OP I used to think exactly like you until I had kids. Now I have a 2 year old I realise just how hard it is to get them to talk quietly/not shout or scream/not bang things in cafes. "
"My priority is feeding her and if she annoys people that's not my problem. She will learn good table manners in time."

So basically "It drove me crazy and spoiled my cafe experience. But now I am the one with kids, and even though I know how annoying it is, I've decided not going to cafes until she has any table manners is just not what I prefer."

I think bellowing about sexual assault in front of kids is more wrong tbh

Everybody has a right to be out in the community Spikey and that is why everybody needs to be aware of the other people they're sharing a space with.

It is not unreasonable to expect adults to keep their voices down to a normal level and to teach their children to do the same in restaurants, on public transport etc. Yes, there will be times when children are tired or over excited and become noisy despite the best efforts of parents.

But there are also times when parents simply sit there and make no effort whatsoever to calm a child down, make them lower their voice, sit at the table or whatever and take the attitude that everyone else just has to suck it up.

Anyone who takes that attitude, whether it's an adult who wants to bellow into his phone on the bus, a teenager who can't be bothered to keep his voice down in a restaurant, or a parent who doesn't see why they should make an effort to quieten their child or remove them from a situation where they're annoying others, is selfish.

There are also some kids who will never learn to speak quietly. And they also have a right to be out.

In real life I find people are a million times more tolerant and pleasant than on MN

Suntrapped is not being perfectly reasonable. She's expecting other people to put up with something she wasn't prepared to put up with before she had children herself.

YANBU, but first responsibility is with parents who seem to be incredibly unwilling to quieten down their children.

It was quieter in the past because our parents told us when we were being annoying. I don't think I've ever heard a younger parent do this. There seem to be two extremes, screaming and swearing at silent, cowed-looking children, or ignoring screaming brats, with hardly any normal parenting in the middle.

She is actually. Im sure hee child will grow up just fine

*If you choose to do your work in an cafe you cant complain. Its not an office.

So entitled.*

I don't choose to work in a cafe, Really, I am required to do much of it out in the community and have very few alternatives.

My son is severely disabled user. I do hope you have that in mind when you are judging people and what they do.

Yes I do have it in mind Spikey. Please don't turn this thread into something it's not about.

How was she supposed to make a child sound less shrill? she wanted some food. Presumably having three children she knew hat starting a please shut up now conversation would have been even louder that why you were currently hearing.

It was quieter in the past because our parents told us when we were being annoying. I don't think I've ever heard a younger parent do this. There seem to be two extremes, screaming and swearing at silent, cowed-looking children, or ignoring screaming brats, with hardly any normal parenting in the middle.

My mother used to quietly threaten to take me to the toilet which meant I'd quietly get a hiding out of view. I was quiet. But at what costs?

My parents used to threaten to take us home if we started misbehaving anywhere. That usually worked, because we knew they meant it. No one is advocating going bak to walloping kids.

I think bellowing about sexual assault in front of kids is more wrong tbh

Wow, now who's entitled? An adult goes into a quiet cafe and commences a quiet phone conversation without any idea that it may lead to a disclosure of a history of sex crimes.

Two parents come in with 5 incredibly loud and badly behaved children, requiring the solo adult to raise their voice, and the latter is the one in wrong?

I'll bear that in mind in future, and suggest that any parents sit elsewhere in case I need to discuss matters that might be unsuitable for young ears.

Its not the parents fault you choose to work in a public place.

I wonder if your parents would agree that you were quiet every time you went out? And being able to afford to buy a meal that you wouldn't eat (by leaving early) is a luxury most parents can't afford

Our local cafe will approach parents if their children are being too disruptive. Unfortunately they don't approach groups of adults - I was in there on Monday with a friend and we could barely hear each other speak over the braying from another group of mums across the room.

Which bit of "I don't choose to work in a cafe" are you struggling to understand, Really? Or are you choosing to be obtuse to be goady?

I think you do get better at blocking out child noise when you have them, for your own sanity. I used to hate screaming children before I had any, but then when MrNC and I managed a meal out without kids, a toddler started a tantrum, and we looked at each other, relaxed and said "aaah - a screaming child and it's not our problem!" Hardly noticed it at all.

My ds would love to be taken home, and if he thought kicking off would get that, he'd be staging a tantrum immediately. Sadly for him I think practicing table manners should be done every month or so, so force him to a cafe.

Kids wont learn if they are always taken away though.

People need to be a bit more understanding.

Lady..ok if you HAVE to work in a cafe its still doesn't mean everyone else has to be quiet. Is that better?

When DC2 was a baby I had an extremely rare break from the children and went to a restaurant on my own for dinner and dessert one evening- bliss!

...For about five minutes until the family next door showed up and their toddler daughter started playing with exactly the same bloody v-tech musical toy which my child owned. This went on for most of the meal

Running around is dangerous I agree.

But people moaning about toddlers not behaving perfectly is just too much. Kids need to learn and it takes practice.

LakieLady you've already explained you don't choose to work in a cafe, but that doesn't make it any more appropriate a venue for 'a discreet discussion with someone about their addiction issues, being abused by a partner or poor mental health'. A cafe's not a soft-play centre, but it's not a therapy venue or office either.

Other posters on the thread complaining about kids' noise while they're trying to have a meeting in Costa also seem oblivious to their own behaviour. Our local Neros often has people holding meetings, and even a small one colonises the whole room: people lapse into a different, louder sort of voice when they're in a professional context, and it cuts right through more muted conversations, but none of them seem to notice.

I don't think your expectation of a libary-like hushed environment is any more valid than a parent expecting a free-for-all screeching space. I'm also surprised it's even permissible to (professionally) discuss sensitive issues like child abuse convictions and domestic violence in a completely public setting; presumably you have to be very very careful not to mention anything identifying, and keep confidential documents out of public view? To state the obvious, it's awful that funding cuts (presumably) have reduced social care professionals to working in completely unsuitable environments.

The last time I took my children out to eat they were, to my mind, impeccably behaved, as were the family with even younger children sitting next to us. Shame the same thing couldn't be said of the adults sat nearby, two of whom seemed incapable of holding a conversation in a restaurant without resorting to expletives with every other word.

Whilst I have some sympathy with the OP's complaint, I lack sympathy for anyone who expects others to step in where they are not prepared to. Should it be the restaurant manager's responsibility to recognize (by osmosis?) that the OP was unhappy with the noise level? People have different tolerance levels so expecting them to recognise when you have reached yours is asking quite a lot. Either just say something to the noisy people, or tell the manager/librarian that it is making you uncomfortable, but don't just sit there in a passive-aggressive fury because someone else isn't doing something about it.