To think a lot of parents simply don't hear their children's noise...

[user1485342611]

and sometimes restaurant managers, librarians etc need to be more pro-active about stepping in?

I was in a restaurant yesterday having lunch with a friend. A mother with three children was sitting nearby. The toddler was banging a toy car repeatedly on the table, the little girl was talking in a really loud shrill voice and the slightly older boy was shouting loudly to be heard over her. The noise was deafening but the mother seemed really calm and so used to it that she didn't even notice it, or realise it was driving people mad.

The manager said nothing.

AIBU to think that he owed it to all his other paying customers to ensure that one table weren't allowed to create a disturbance and ruin other people's meals, and he should have sorted the situation somehow.

I've seen this a lot in restaurants and other public places and wish there was some kind of policy in place that enabled those in charge to tactfully step in when children are becoming loud and disruptive.

Cory I totally agree that loud raucous adults, or those with really booming or shrill voices, or shrieky laughs are equally annoying and should learn to behave with consideration in restaurants.

" It seems more to me that a fair few people have this expectation that their comfort and satisfaction are everyone else's top priority when they're out and about."

It seems to me that a fair few parents are luxuriating in the label of "kids always make ear-splitting noise all the time, cant be helped, soz" rather than actually attempting to parent their kids.

There is a vast middle ground between "victorian silence" and "mind-bendingly loud".

We were on a flight at half term and we had to put up with this shit from a family as the parents clearly didn't give a toss. They were seated near us on the way out, and my heart sank as we spotted them on the way back, and low and behold, I was sitting right in front of the noisiest boy on the way back.

So Mother, Father, and I think a three year old on one side of the aisle, boy of about 9, girl of about 11, and girl of about 5 on the other side. Both mother and father had a nice snooze agains each other on the flight back. I couldn't because the boy wriggled, and kicked my seat, and a one point stuck his finger in my side (the Dad was awake at this point, and did not get the kid to apologise). And before the Mum and Dad had their dose, both the older boy and girl would constantly say in a too loud voice; 'Daddy! Daddy! Can I have the iPad. Daddy, Daddy, what's that? Daddy Daddy! I love holidays. Daddy! Daddy! Daddy!'

I just wanted the parents to just ask them to perhaps put the volume down. I could stand the seat banging, but it was the complete disregard that they were sharing the space with loads of other people that put my back up. It was also the fact that they adults got to sit to each other and no one was looking after the three kids. Sure, it would be great for them to learn to be a bit more independent, but it was not working. (To be fair, the older girl was lovely to her siblings, but just so loud!)

'Daddy! Daddy! Daddy!'

Loud talking is a tricky one - if we are out and about and my son is excited about whatever we're doing, then the chances are I will be correcting his behaviour as he wants to get up, run around and fiddle with everything in sight. If I get him to sit down and engage in conversation, then asking him to be quiet as well just gives him the impression that anything he does is 'wrong' and it means that his experience of eating out is one of unremitting miserableness.

We do talk about how to exercise consideration for others, and I do remind him to use his indoor voice, but I sometimes have to pick my battles and I would rather he was safe and not physically impeding on anyone else's space than talking slightly louder than I would ideally like.

There is a vast middle ground between "victorian silence" and "mind-bendingly loud".

There is, but going back to the OP do you think they're describing mind-bendingly loud??

Pinkpeppers... I do understand that in an ideal world I should just take him out. And I do if possible. So if I have yet to fill my trolley, I will wheel it out. But if I have a full trolley it is nigh on impossible. I have to wheel it to the entrance, ask security guard to watch it, get ds out of the trolley(which he wants anyway). Then get the baby out, hold baby in one arm and carry toddler by his wrist kicking and screaming to outside (where there are also people). Wait for him to calm down, then take him back to trolley and get him back in (which may well start it off again). I do mostly online shop, but on occasion forget something.

I don't know, whenever I see a toddler having a tantrum, I think poor parent, not poor me......... It's not like you want them to do it! My Elder two had almost no tantrums as toddlers, and I have done nothing different with number 3, but he has 20-30 tantrums a day. I am ignoring and not giving in..... But honestly if he couldn't have a tantrum out.... We would never be able to go out!

I only ever go to restaurants two handed! So one of us can take difficult one (almost always three year old out).

I think it's sensible to stick to pizza restaurants and child friendly places when you have small noisy kids.

All of ours are grown up now so we avoid places like that like the plague. Of course you need to parent your kids but let's face it other people's kids are always a pain in the arse.

I think regards flying. To have child free flights or over 12 years we would gladly pay more.

My heart sinks to see a toddler approaching me on a plane and i remember flying with toddlers was bloody hard. seperate flights or st least the option of them would be good for everyone I think.

Epoxy I don't think noise has to be 'mind bendingly loud' for other diners in a restaurant to find it annoying. No one is expecting children to sit in silence and not move or fidget; but neither should parents expect other diners to put up with shouting, objects being banged repeatedly on the table, or taking in a really loud shrill voice.

And I think kids crying and throwing tantrums in a supermarket is totally different. No one is going there for an enjoyable relaxing experience. It's one of those essential tasks that everyone has to do and most people get in and out of supermarkets as quickly as possible.

I was in the doctor's waiting room last week and a little boy was charging around, climbing on the furniture and shouting in what was a silent room. The receptionist had to tell his parents to control him. In my opinion they shouldn't have had to be asked.

OP I used to think exactly like you until I had kids. Now I have a 2 year old I realise just how hard it is to get them to talk quietly/not shout or scream/not bang things in cafes.

I am a paying customer too, and unless the restaurant/cafe has a policy forbidding noise, I won't take my toddler out. I simply don't care enough what others think. My priority is feeding her and if she annoys people that's not my problem. She will learn good table manners in time. I do shush her, remind her to keep voice down, interact, distract her and sometimes resort to Bing on the tablet (volume low) but she's excitable and forgets to be quiet.

TBH when people glare at us I care even less about noise and do less to quieten her. Children are noisy but they're still part of society.

True Heron but at least she stepped in when the parents weren't doing anything. Too many people don't nowadays and allow other clients and customers to be bothered and annoyed.

I realise that a lot of people are afraid to open their mouths, in case they encounter the defensive indignant parent who will take huge umbrage at anyone criticising their children.

The trouble is some parents are so aggressive when approached with reasonable requests to keep the children under control that it puts people off saying anything.

Not quite the same but I've been threatened by parents for daring to say their darling was hitting my child, even more alarming was an incident in the park when I shouted "don't do that" at boy because he was kicking the shit out of another and the boy went and got his mum. She was scary and I'm very wary now.

We eat out quite regularly and have done with my children from a young age. We always take age appropriate distractions with us such as mini magnadoodles, colouring books and sticker books.
Yes my kids often get bored or raise the noise level when they have been sat too long but equally they can be distracted if we help them to colour or do their sticker books and we tell them when it's necessary to lower their voices and to sit back down. My 2 have naturally loud voices which in some ways I have become immune too but I'm also aware of in public and my 3 year old talks about his inside voice and we reiterate this when out in public places.
It's hard work being out with small children and my youngest can be especially challenging but we try to be consistent with him and when he was younger if he made a fuss in a restaurant well then one of us took him outside for a bit. If our meal went cold then so be it, our entitlement of a family meal did not outweigh other people's entitlement of an enjoyable meal.

So basically Suntrapped before you had kids you expected other parents to keep their children quiet so that you could eat in peace. But now that you're a parent you don't give a shit about anyone else and let your child go ahead and create a racket.

Nice.

I've never met anyone bothered by my toddlers noise. Most elderly people love it! You get the odd glare from workers sat in a cafe trying to work but that's what offices are for surely. We don't go often because it's just too difficult. If I was challenged I'd give it fully back to be honest. Kids got just as much right as anyone else to be in a restaurant or cafe. This isn't the 1950s. Times have changed.

Almost 's dad is obviously an example of an adult who is louder, ruder and more unpleasant to be around than most children.

I disagree. If the parents aren't doing their job and keeping the kids quiet, then someone has to do it. Good for Almost's dad, I say.

@Suntrapped, your attitude is appalling. If your child is incapable of behaving properly in a cafe, then you shouldn't take her to one. Teach her some manners at home first, it's not rocket science, is it?

I'm also not impressed with Suntrapped. Yes it can be nigh on impossible to make a 2 year old sit still and be quiet sometimes - which is why when mine were that age and playing up, we avoided restaurants until the dc could be relied upon to behave!

I do what I can to keep mine quiet but he has and probably always will have times of being noisy even as an adult.He still has a right to be out in the community and there are times when others just have to put up with it.

The reason why so many people are complaining about noisy, badly behaved children is because there are too many parents these days who just think that the rest of the world should suck it up.

We have moved to the ridiculous position where as soon as a child comes along the parents are totally child-centred and change their lives to accomodate the needs of that child, while it used to be that the child slotted into the parents' lives. They then expect the rest of society to put children first and get pissed off when we don't.

Becoming an adult comes with privileges and one of those is to go to places where children cannot go, do things that children can't do etc. However, it seems that now there is nowhere that children can't go, nothing that they can't be part of and it all gets rather tiring for those of us who just want to be with other adults and not have our lives interrupted by screaming, banging, screeching kids.

Would you accept to be asked to leave a restaurant because your voice or laugh is too loud?
The shouting and banging the table with a tou could be adressed, yes, but defining the acceptable volume is too subjective... A lot of adults speak too loud, everybody is annoyed but nobody complains. Same for tables with large groups, they are often very noisy, people speak to eachother from one end of the table to the other. Not sure children are louder, you just notice them more.

I am that worker, ChinaRose!

In between client visits, I don't have time to get back to the office and management get the arse if we waste an hour + 20 miles of mileage allowance just to spend 30 mins at a desk. We used to work from libraries, but the opening hours have been cut to the bone and most are only open 3-4 hours most days, so cafes it is. We also have to meet clients in cafes when risk factors make home visits unsafe.

It is really difficult when someone is letting their child shriek and squeal constantly, and you're trying to have a discreet discussion with someone about their addiction issues, being abused by a partner or poor mental health. It's even worse when you're on the phone, and really hard to focus if you're catching up on admin. In one of the 4 towns in my patch, there are loads of coffee shops, so you can usually find one that's quiet, but in another, there's only 2 and they're often noisier than a soft play place.

I was carrying out an assessment over the phone once, and 2 mums with 5 kids between them came and sat at the next table. The noise was intolerable, I could hardly hear the client and had to practically shout so he could hear me. By the time I got to the bit about offending history, my voice was really loud.

Oddly, when I repeated the phrase "2 offences of sexual assault on a child under 12" and asked the man if he was subject to a SOPO, the yummy mummies found it necessary to tell the children to be quiet, presumably so they could earwig.

Mind you, I am unusually intolerant. DP and I have cancelled our food orders before now because of noisy and badly-behaved children. The second time we did it, the landlord went and told the parents to calm the kids down or take them home, as they were disturbing other customers.

Suntrapped you are being perfectly reasonable. You model good behaviour for your 2 year old and tell her to be quiet.

You're getting her used to cafes.

She's not perfectly behaved and quiet as she is 2.

People berating you have sticks up their bottoms.

If you choose to do your work in an cafe you cant complain. Its not an office.

So entitled.