AIBU to wonder about choosing NOT to have kids?

[indecisivepoppy]

I always thought I wanted a baby and have been TTC for a while (more than six months), but to no avail. I've now started pondering... do I actually want to have DCs? No money ever again, no lie ins ever again, ruined body, less time and energy for marriage and friends... why do we do it to ourselves? It's not like the world actually needs anymore people in it. What are your thoughts? Do those of you who chose not to have DCs regret it? If you have DCs, do you prefer life with them? Has your marriage suffered? Part of me wonders if these feelings of apathy / uncertainty are being prompted by not getting pregnant quickly and trying to protect myself from the possibility that we might not be able to conceive.

Congratulations to those of you who have taken the plunge (intentionally or not) and are expecting! I wish you the very best of luck with your pregnancies and becoming parents xx

Babykite I'm sorry parenting has been difficult for you. Do you mind me asking why?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about non mum's being here. The more the merrier. I just hadn't realised how many child free posters there are. I know most threads aren't about parenting but I'd made an assumption that was because parents have lots in their lives other than parenthood!

24hoursinER don't worry I didn't view your post negatively just was explaining why there are more of us child free posters than you thought but you only typically get a sense of how many on threads like this one.

24HoursinER I didn't read your post as complaining about us child-free people at all
When I first joined I didn't realise how many child-free people were here. I thought I was the only one and I was a bit awkward about being here. I slowly realised MN is full on non-mothers. In fact, paradoxically, MN is where I'd normally go for advice which is specifically about being child-free (I don't know many other child-free people). Weird given that it's a parenting forum.

As mout said, it's the best forum for women child-free or not

This is such an interesting thread. I notice that all the parents who are revelling in parenthood seem to be parents of younger children.

I found the primary school years the easiest, and the teenage years the hardest.

"Life is good, it's not diminished by not having children"

I agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly reetgood

Mary and other posters on here who are childfree by choice - I wish there were more people like you in the world.

Others accusing people of being "selfish" when they say they don't want children - not people on this thread, I'm referring to a PP who said she was told this as a teen ... I just can't get my head around it. If anything, it's the complete opposite!

I always thought I wanted 2 or 3 and it looks settled on 2. DS1's pregnancy was very uncomfortable with a tough birth. The desire for a sibling remained strong and DS2 arrived with a 2 year gap. The pregnancy was better, but still uncomfortable. There was another tough birth which had an impact for quite a while. I really couldn't put myself through another pregnancy and birth in close succession. Had my body been able to cope with another 2 year gap, I would have done, but by the time I felt physically more able, the mental switch had flipped. With a 5 and 3 year old, life had suddenly simplified, no buggies, only one pull up a night, a respectable amount of sleep. The logistics of getting them to nursery and school was a pain, but that would simplify when DS2 turns 4.5 and starts school. Another baby would mean separate drop offs/ pickups for 4-5 more years. By that stage DS1 would be a couple of years of taking himself to secondary. I couldn't face plunging myself back into the baby/ toddler years. Two DCs felt like a decent lifestyle and that would have to adapt to another. I couldn't face the trivia of nagging/ herding another DC out of the house with socks and shoes on, that one's a long term commitment

I was surprised at how suddenly that maternal urge flipped from a life-held position. If another child occurred, I'd be pleased and bring it into my family with love, but I can't volunteer to bring it upon myself anymore. Logically there is no turning back as DH is older. I have a few years left, but its the impact of the teenage/ young adult years encroaching on retirement.

I have a child, and I don't think I've ever been on the Mn Parenting board, come to think of it, and though I joined Mn when I was pregnant, I think I glanced once at the pregnancy and childbirth boards, then discovered the often unintentionally hilarious 'Tryhard vs Common As Muck' baby names forum, and the teeth-bared free for all that is AIBU.

DeadGood I completely agree. I've been accused of being selfish because I don't want children.

I argue that if we think about selfishness as being putting your needs and wants above anything else then isn't it the height of selfishness to bring a child into an already over-crowded world just because you want one? You bring someone into the world who will add pollution, take up space and use up communal resources all because you want a child. And then when that child's born you feel such an intense love for them that you put them above anything or anyone else- isn't that also a form of selfishness?

I don't believe this (well I do but I don't "blame" or "judge" anyone for having a child) but if you want to talk about selfishness then you have to acknowledge parents are also selfish.

BUT, I actually think it's ridiculous to talk about selfishness. We're all selfish in different ways.

I actually think we (especially women) need to move away from the idea that being selfish is a negative thing and that putting other people above our own wants and needs is somehow incredibly virtuous and saintly. Women have been doing this for too long. I actually think it's great to say "I'm going to be selfish and do.... all because I want to". Life's too short to not be selfish sometimes

I was childfree by choice for almost 40 years, and have only been a parent for 5, so I still tend to identify with the childfree, almost by instinct. I'm delighted there are so many non-parents on Mn. I think anything that erodes the idea that there is some grand and uncrossable divide between parents and those without children, or the still-prevalent stereotype that the childfree are selfish hedonists while parents are frazzled saints is a good thing.

(For anyone childfree who is thoroughly tired of the 'selfish' stereotype, which I got all the bloody time, I have to tell you that it doesn't in fact stop once you have a child. I was more or less still wiping the vernix off my baby when the chorus of 'An Only is a Lonely!' and 'Having one is SELFISH!' started.

Mary - x-post. I agree absolutely. Female 'selfishness' should be validated when in fact it's an assertive, positive decision to meet your own needs.

My experience is that people I know who are selfish, simply extend their selfishness to cover their children. So yes they no longer only focus on themselves, they focus on their children as well, but are still selfish to everyone else. These are the people pushing their child's needs and wants, even if it is detrimental to other children round about them. And yes, I speak from experience. So I always reject the line about how children make you less selfish.

DeadGood thanks for your support . We're not selfish, just self-aware, lol. Society would be a little happier if people were more true to themselves. I don't mean trample over other people to get what we want but rather assert ourselves more, especially in the face of family pressure for grandchildren, etc.

OP,

I always wanted kids, but for me and DH i think your statement sums our situation up :
No money ever again, no lie ins ever again, ruined body, less time and energy for marriage and friends... why do we do it to ourselves?

We absolutely love them to bits and it would destroy us to lose them, however, if beforehand we knew that we were going through what we have been through, we wouldn't have done it - but we have DC's with additional needs so that has added a lot of pressure and we've not really had a 'normal' parenting experience. The other day one of our DC's health professionals congratulated us on still being married!

My point being that some of us end up having kids cos we feel that this is what we are supposed to do, the next step, our destiny etc. However, I had a fantastic well paid job, multiple holidays a year and a great social life with friends and I now have none of that.
I am skint. We are struggling for money. My career has been flushed down the loo, i'm overweight, I rarely have the energy to socialise.....and holidays - forget it !!!

Definition of selfish : of a person, action, or motive) lacking consideration for other people; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.

I'm unsure as to why so many people bring the word selfish into the topic of whether or not to have kids. I also get annoyed when people talk about having kids as adding to a stretched population! Would those people prefer there to be a cull of humans to reduce the numbers? Having or not having a child is a personal choice. Millions of people have actually had an unplanned pregnancy and been fab patents? Whereas some have planned and been seriously incompetent. Pregnancies can be unplanned but it's extremely rare to have an actual unplanned baby. If you decide to have a baby then please just put your heart into it. Kids don't actually need that much money. They need upur support and value and plenty of love and patience. Xx

I'm unsure as to why so many people bring the word selfish into the topic of whether or not to have kids.

Because a lot of people default to it when they are uncomfortable with someone else making a choice they suspect is 'easier' but which they themselves didn't make for reasons they are often unable to articulate. An alarming number of people get aggressive when confronted with someone who doesn't 'do what everyone does' (in their opinion), whether it's renting when they could afford to buy, travelling India in a campervan when they 'should' be paying off a mortgage with a 9 to 5 job, going barefaced when they 'should' be wearing makeup, and -- remaining childfree when they 'should' be having 2.4 children because the moaners like to moan about nappies and worry and childcare fees and impossible teenagers, and feel cheated that someone else has just opted out of all that. It makes them feel that someone did something unfair and skipped the queue or fiddled the tax man, and they bring out the accusations of selfishness.

My MIL, who has all the tact of a rhino in mid-charge, is personally wounded by the fact that DH and I chose to have one child when we were both 40 and financially stable, when she had three by her 21st birthday when she and FIL were living in poverty in two rooms with a loo two floors down.

Mumchance I completely agree with you! Everyone loves to get aggressive / defensive about other people's choices when in fact there are many different ways to live and everyone's choices are valid.

I always knew i wanted to have children, even as a young girl. My DD(16) is quite sure she doesn't. My DS was sure she didn't want to but got pregnant in early 20s unplanned. She was a different kind of mum, loved her DD but not overly mumsy and never had another out of choice. I love my 2 but can also see that an equally fulfilling life is possible without.

Dsis not DS

I was told many times that I was selfish for not wanting children. I have also been told I am not normal and asked why I bothered getting married if I didn't want any!

I found complete strangers who would strike up conversations on the bus or wherever would often ask if I had children and then ask "why not" when I said no. I used to think if I had wanted children but was unable to have them how upsetting I would have found people's comments.

I have also been asked who is going to look after me when I get old and told if my OH dies before me I will be old and lonely with no children!

Now in my 60's I get asked how many grandchildren I have and that starts the whole no children thing over again! Last week I saw a doctor about my anxiety and depression and she asked me about my life and how many children I have living near by. When I said I had no children she gave me quite a surprised look

user I'm in that stage of constantly being asked and hinted at now! I can't imagine how upsetting it would be if I weren't able to have children.

I hadn't thought that it would all happen again in my 60s. That's something to look forward to.

My MIL is fond of saying it's a shame me and DH don't want children because we'd have "the brainy ones".

I don't think it's worth it, honestly. Looking at the people I know, all of their DC's as adults have turned out to be horrible and entitled, or they just hardly see their parents/pick up the phone.

What if I had a child and they disappointed me, or turned out to be horrible, someone that I didn't like? A lot of parenting is down to luck; both the personality of the child and their peer group.

So many parents give everything to their kids (love, time and money) but once they are adults, it doesn't seem to make a difference. I think society is changing, and as a result young people are a lot more selfish today. I really don't think it's worth it.

No money ever again, no lie ins ever again, ruined body, less time and energy for marriage and friends

I think you're over egging the pudding but I know what you mean! I have two dc and they are wonderful but it's safe to say they have not come without sacrifice.

I have occasionally read posts on mn that go ' babies just aren't that expensive! ' and I think what the fuck are we doing wrong then! We are fortunate in that we are by no means in a 'no money ever' situation but the kids have cost us tens of thousands already and my eldest is still only 3.5. Some of the coats are a choice but there's no two ways about it, they cost money you could be using to do other things. However I see them as an expensive responsibility but by no means a burden.

We both get lie ins occasionally. Some of my friends don't though.

ruined body. My body isn't ruined but it is forever changed. I have actual scars on my nipples ffs. They are worth it to me though. For some of my friends the changes I their bodies are more serious - I don't think any of them regret having them for this reason though.

My relationship with dp has without a doubt changed. We really only have one babysitter so only get out together once in a while. We've had to adapt and, for the first time in all of our time together (20 years this year)we've had to work at it. I'm confident in our relationship though.

For me the hardest part about being a parent is The Fear. The fear and worry that something will happen to my children is awful. I have had anxiety issues in the past so that might just be me.

My children have brought me immeasurable joy and love and I can't imagine life without them now I have them but I think we would have been happy if we hadn't.

I'm aghast that child free posters have been called selfish though. Are people stupid? Nothing selfish about it at all.

InDubiousBattle I don't think it's being called selfish that much though someone did once say I was selfish for depriving my DH of a child. A child he most definitely doesn't want

I think it's more that child-free people are assumed to be child-free because they're selfish, not selfish because they're child-free.

So, the assumption is we've chosen not to have children because we know we're selfish rather than it being a selfish decision not to have children. To make a selfish decision you sort of have to put yourself above someone else and when you decide to have children you don't really put yourself above anyone except perhaps an unborn child, which is bonkers.