AIBU - Understanding Islam

[peggypatch99]

Hello All, first post (lurker of years and years).

I watched the concert last night, very emotional and tears shed, but afterwards I have felt myself become so angry, and I am not sure at what exactly, the world? Terrorists? The Government?

So I wanted to educate myself better and understand more about Islam in the west, how we are perceived and what life is like for Muslim's - I see posts on facebook and sometimes I agree but without knowing the ins and outs, which led me to trying to understand the muslim way of life and separate muslims from Islamic radicals - some people seem to put these in the same category despite the fact the IRA did not represent the Irish Catholic community as a whole.

However I looked at a Muslim forum, and to be honest I was shocked and upset at how we in Britain are perceived.

The forum (I appreciate not all Muslims will think in this manner) seeks to demonstrate how as women we must be completely submissive, if we are not men are allowed to strike us. There are conversations about how we are unclean unless we have undergone FGM, how in Britain we need to be taught that there is only one god, how homosexuality is wrong and people should be punished.

I wondered if perhaps Muslim ladies would share their thoughts on the forum, as this is giving me a distressing understanding of the religion, when I thought that Islam was a peaceful religion - but striking wives, withholding sex - or punishing and sleeping with other women, seems to be encouraged.

(This is advise given to a husband)
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

I am probably coming across as not very educated on the matter, and that is true, but would be interested in what Mumsnet think of this forum and whether forums like this are perhaps clouding our judgement of the religion as a whole.

I am Christian and can't say I visit Christian forums as there are always those who take scripture and amend the meaning for their own aim.

Here is the forum:
www.ummah.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?158-Marriage

Thank you, please note I am not a troll, I am someone wanting to learn better and understand. I think part of the problem is that without being educated properly it leads to incorrect thoughts and feelings which are very raw post attacks.

It's like something from the 7th century imo. I too want to understand, but what I really can't cope with is is why they want to force their ideology onto us? Fine feel like that within your own religion but why kill us for listening to music and dancing!

I think it would be very easy to happen upon a Christian forum that would give you just as many reasons to raise your eyebrows (and possibly vomit).

You could more profitably start with a lurk on this Mumsnet thread where Muslim women are chatting to each other.

Fine feel like that within your own religion but why kill us for listening to music and dancing!

You're confusing Muslims with terrorists. I have Muslim friends who are yet to kill me for listening to music or dancing, in fact they quite enjoy it too.

Thanks smallandbrave yes I think that is what my confusion is around, for example a Jehovah's Witness knocked on my door a few weeks back, I had a brief chat and explained I had my own views (I have a child saved by multiple blood transfusions) and that I was happy with my choice. They were lovely and said no problem and went on their way. No forcing, no pointing out in their opinion I was wrong.

Thanks Mrs Hathway, I will visit and read, and yes hence why I don't visit Christian forums as I think that there are always some who take the words too far and actually cause hurt and suffering.

I think in this instance I understand more about Christianity but I am ignorant on Islam, and I want to feel educated.

Osterbabe you have Muslim friends and I confess I do not (perhaps I do but as I never talk about my religion they shouldn't have to either) for me religion is a private matter, I live in a house of atheists, that is their choice and doesn't affect my life in the slightest.

an alternative look at a Muslim site

OP, I don't think you are sincere.

If I went looking for a 'Christian' forum, and used a US fundamentalist one as an example of Christian views on women, sexuality etc., that would be the equivalent of your post.

I'm not too sure what the point of your post is. As a non believer it is my understanding that every faith is a broad spectrum with some believers at one end, some at the other and a huge number in between.
When I hear someone say someone say they're a Christian I don't automatically assume that they agree with the far right fundamentalists, or assume that they disagree with evolution, nor do I assume that anyone who is Jewish or Muslim agree with people at the end of their spectrum of beliefs.
You clearly understand that views expressed on a Christian forummay not reflect your views, nor that of the mainstream so why would you expect a forum for another religion to be any different?

I'm a British Muslim. I live what I believe a balanced life. I try to be a well mannered, patient, tolerant, grateful and positive person at all times. I do try to pray 5 times but do not always manage to achieve this. When I was 19 I started wearing the hijab - completely my choice (in fact my mum didn't wear it). I was In my third year at a Russel group university. I dress what I call 'modestly' as I don't like to show my bare legs or cleavage etc. I don't want men to judge or treat me according to how I look but rather for my intellect. I tend to wear dresses/tunics with straight jeans for example. I am married now and my husband and I both work. We share our money, make decisions together, go on holidays etc, have our hobbies and do socialise with both Muslims and non Muslims. My husband does attend a local mosque for Friday prayers and more frequently during the month of Ramadan (women are permitted aswell - I often read non Muslims focusing on the fact that women aren't allowed on mosques. I just choose not to go as I prefer to pray at home and spend the travelling time relaxing or catching up on chores).

For me, Islam is the 'middle road'. No extreme views either way.

These terror attacks taken by people who claim to be Muslim infuriate me. They are giving Islam a bad name and making it harder for us to live in society. They cannot be condoned at all in any circumstances.

I wouldn't look into religion as a reason. I've worked with and have friends that are Muslim and they are genuinely some of the nicest people I have come across.

The people that carry out these attacks would still find a reason to do it regardless of their religious beliefs.

What about the Wedtboro Church who protest soldiers funerals etc ... they do not represent all of Christianity do they?

It's important to understand and respect other religions but it won't give you the answers regarding terrosrism.

Thanks Dawn, badtime I am sincere, I actually put in google Muslim forum, this one came up first.

I want to understand, from the other forums added they show a different side, which is my point, it seems the first forum is not indicative of how all Muslims portray the Quran.

I have just had a thought actually, if someone googled Christianity and the first page was Westboro Baptist Church, that would in no way show my views!

The Westboro Church comprises literally one extended family of complete weirdos. Islam is a worldwide faith, and some countries base their law making on its teachings.

Justjibberish - that's my point I am not educated on the subject, hence why I am asking, but you make a very valid point.

I suppose in my ignorance I perceive the rules around Islam to be much stricter - but that is quite ignorant because if I were a true Christian then surely I would be at church every Sunday which I am not.

My DIL is Muslim. She is a modern, strong minded young woman, works, has her own money and is equal in every way to her partner (my son). She carries her beliefs personal to her, is easy to get along with and blends with people from all walks of life.
She is far more typical of the average Muslim person than the more extreme types you might come across on sites like that.

Spend time with Muslim people, get to know them as people. You will find that there are FAR more things in common than differences.

Hi peggy, its great that you want to learn more.

In terms of the quotes above from the Ummah forum that doesn't resonate with the Islam I know and practice. Some people cough mysoginist men cough may take quotes out of the context they were intended and use them for their own positioning/justification. As you say, this happens with all faiths but it definitely annoys me. Historically it's been allowed to proliferate because of lack of education but I'm hoping that thins will improve as people (women in particular) get to know the religion for themselves rather than what might be passed on by patriarchal cultural views.

The Islam I know is much more about people fulfilling their personal duties as a good human being and Muslim. So for example, I think it is important to be charitable, kind, work hard and fairly, be neighbourly and to help others. Non-muslims and muslims, its the same to me as we are all a community here. I have friends of many faiths.
There's no point praying 5 times a day if you are tyrannical, obnoxious and rude to other people- there's no reward in it, in so far as I see it. God doesn't need our prayers and certainly not if we are representing a poor view of our faith.

Back to your quote, I have a lovely DH and there would be no question of him striking me, never, it's just not relevant or acceptable to our marriage. As I say, I'm not familiar with the particular forum you posted about but please don't think that is representative of muslims.

Sorry I've rambled on, hopefully more learned posters will be on in a bit to explain things more succinctly!

I live in a moderate Muslim country.

As others have said, you are likening all Muslims to the extremes. I'm sure you wouldn't like your religion to be compared to the extreme right of Christianity and the Westboro Church? That would be similarly ridiculous.

It was my Muslim work colleage's birthday on Friday. He was fasting but brought in cake for everyone else. Top bloke.

Thank you Purple Violet, really helpful, I think that is what I needed to understand, as I say I have come to this thread not knowing, and when people spout off evil about how it is Muslim's doing this to the UK, I want to make sure I am informed when I reply back to counteract their ridiculous views. I apologise I am not clued up on history/the world enough to have those conversations. I don't want to appear stupid, I want to understand truly and hopefully make people think about their narrow mindness - I may be narrow minded because I don't understand, but I want to be open minded and understand properly!

Feel free to PM or ask any questions you have on here x

Thank you Bonjovi girl, that is so helpful and I really appreciate you explaining. I think I was horrified at the striking part! I actually do know some muslim ladies at work, although not in my team which is the reason I probably have not got to know more, but I think it's hard to start the conversation without looking stupid and rather nosey!

Someone posted the Muslim chat on here earlier and I must say this is more like what I originally thought, I hope no one has been offended by my question, I sincerely want to know more so that I understand better and actually looking at some of these posts it makes you realise that more of us (including myself) need to learn about other religions and appreciate their stance.

As a Christian I never talk about my religion because as I said I feel it is private, and in this day and age (I am so sorry for this) there is an element of being mocked for beliefs.

Thanks Fatowl, I really feel you have all given me food for thought, and I will leave the thread that little bit wiser!

There are a lot of these forums though and I can see how they are fuelling the problem.

It usually starts with one person innocently asking what the religion thinks of a certain matter and ends up with a slanging match between who's interpretation is right and who's is wrong. Anyone with even slightly moderate views gets slammed down instantly.

Now that's obviously not to say that all Muslims have extreme views, but I can see why they could influence a persons views when they are looking for religious advice.

There are lots of sects of Islam but the more extreme ones are becoming more prevalent in our society as the rich Saudis have introduced Wahhabism into the mosques

purpleviolpet can I ask why you chose to wear the hijab? Why do you feel as a woman the need to be moderate and hide your image but a man must not feel this need?

It's always going to be a hard sell convincing western women that Islam treats men and women equally when there is visible evidence to the apparent contrary.

When reading the start of your op I had a feeling it was going to be ummah forum! I used to be on there years ago, some of the content is crazy. I don't think I would go on it at all nowadays and it's probably worse now than it used to be, as we used to have more casual chit chat on there but as Facebook became more popular most people started using that instead and it probably is the slightly more radical people left on forums like that, if that makes any sense. (Obviously not everyone on there!) I'm pretty sure those type of forums are very heavily monitored by British intelligence too
But please don't base your idea of most British Muslims on ummah forum!

... how in Britain we need to be taught that there is only one God..
But that is exactly how you were taught. The Jewish, Christian and Moslem religions all come from the same roots, all worshipping the same God in their different ways.

I am british muslim. Firstly. Be very careful what you read online! Lots is rubbish and awful and made up by the very people who have created terrorists in the first place.

All killing is wrong. However i would defend myself by any means possible.

I am not submissive to my husband. But i have his best interests at heart. As he does mine.

It is the mans responsibility to provide for the wife and the wife to take care of her husband. Very 1950s really.

Some things are to be taken literally and sone things to be interpreted differently.

I wear the hijab. Head covering. Not face. It reminds me to be the best muslim i can be and not forget god. He is the reason i wear it and it is a constant reminder. It has nothing to do with anyone else. Not my husband or family. It is up to me. My husband didnt like it when i started wearing it. He was worried people would think he forced me. But thats other peoples problem.

I dont walk around preaching. If someone asks me a question i answer it. Otherwise i am just a normal lady going about her daily business and looking after my family like most women in the world. I have had abuse aimed at me 3 times in the last few years now all in front of my kids. I would say they were terrorising me by doing so. I just want to go out and mind my own business. As do most muslims.

Islam means peace. And thats what we want. Anyone using the name islam to cause terror and death are not really muslim.

Women are cherished in islam. The prophet (pbuh) was always kind to his wives and treated them equally. Women are entitled to their own property and money and is not for her husband to take. If people were to practice islam properly women have many rights. But sadly people get their colulture confused with religion.