AIBU - Understanding Islam

[peggypatch99]

Hello All, first post (lurker of years and years).

I watched the concert last night, very emotional and tears shed, but afterwards I have felt myself become so angry, and I am not sure at what exactly, the world? Terrorists? The Government?

So I wanted to educate myself better and understand more about Islam in the west, how we are perceived and what life is like for Muslim's - I see posts on facebook and sometimes I agree but without knowing the ins and outs, which led me to trying to understand the muslim way of life and separate muslims from Islamic radicals - some people seem to put these in the same category despite the fact the IRA did not represent the Irish Catholic community as a whole.

However I looked at a Muslim forum, and to be honest I was shocked and upset at how we in Britain are perceived.

The forum (I appreciate not all Muslims will think in this manner) seeks to demonstrate how as women we must be completely submissive, if we are not men are allowed to strike us. There are conversations about how we are unclean unless we have undergone FGM, how in Britain we need to be taught that there is only one god, how homosexuality is wrong and people should be punished.

I wondered if perhaps Muslim ladies would share their thoughts on the forum, as this is giving me a distressing understanding of the religion, when I thought that Islam was a peaceful religion - but striking wives, withholding sex - or punishing and sleeping with other women, seems to be encouraged.

(This is advise given to a husband)
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

I am probably coming across as not very educated on the matter, and that is true, but would be interested in what Mumsnet think of this forum and whether forums like this are perhaps clouding our judgement of the religion as a whole.

I am Christian and can't say I visit Christian forums as there are always those who take scripture and amend the meaning for their own aim.

Here is the forum:
www.ummah.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?158-Marriage

Thank you, please note I am not a troll, I am someone wanting to learn better and understand. I think part of the problem is that without being educated properly it leads to incorrect thoughts and feelings which are very raw post attacks.

You can't take that study too seriously. It looked for words or phrases that expressed various emotions. But the devil is in the detail which was not expressed. Consider the two sentences. " The children were stabbed and killed by vicious infidels and God was angry" (4 hits on anger - stabbed, killed, vicious and angry) and "Our loving God says go forth and kill all infidels" ( 1 hit on anger - kill and 1 on love - loving). So the first sentence is considered to contain the most violence - it does but it is not the most dangerous with respect to influencing people. Also length of texts should be taken into consideration - article does not say whether it was or not. Just made the sentences up to illustrate that you cannot take much from the study unless you know the detail of method.

They really do enjoy the killing, the more gruesome the better. Most human beings have at least some compassion in them but these lot don't have a single shred of it. It's not just the killing, it's the way they do it, so unbelievably gruesome.

lavenderhue that gets me too but the nastier passages in the Qu'ran says to punish infidels "harshly" - I guess that means to make their death as painful, horrific and gruesome as possible.

Lovely

I am an atheist. I find most religions very sexist and particularly unfair to women. I would not ban them but I do want all women in the UK to have the chance to get free of religion if they choose to do so and their children to make an informed choice.

On the link on the first post is fascinating - to see the views of those people www.ummah.com/forum/forum.php

Ok, I'll bite, ( as a figure of speech- not in a violent/gruesome way, as I am a Muslim)

The assertion that Islam and the Quran instructs Muslims to "kill all infidels" meaning go create wars and attack innocent people, hold people hostage and post beheading videos is a fallacy and I dare say a fantasy!

Those who quote passages from the Quran without taking into account historical circumstances at the time of it's revelation are doing exactly what IS are doing...using isolated passages to prove their theories/actions and points on forums.

One of the most often quoted verses (Quran 9:5) "Kill all infidels, wherever you find them...capture them, blockade them..."
The infidels referred to were 'idolaters' . These tribes were attacking and opposing the Prophet and his growing number of Muslim reverts.
It does not mean I go out to a big city and start attacking innocent civilians. Like that all Muslims would be out killing instead of what the majority are doing...condemning those who misinterpret the Quran for their own agenda!
Even in times of war, Muslims are instructed not to attack civilians, women and children...if the 'enemy' offers peace then take that offer.

It did write a longer ( yes, even longer) post about pagans, Arab oligarchs, why I should not be apologising for IS...but it seems this thread is going around in circles.

OP I am glad your understanding/knowledge of Islam has increased, I have learnt a lot from this thread, it has been interesting to read the views of all posting.

I agree, all women should be independent, in charge of their own finances and educate their children about all religions so they can make an informed choice. There should be no coercion when it comes to religion.

If you read earlier in this this thread, the website/forum 'Ummah.com' has been discussed. It is the views of a minority who all fuel each other, sat behind screens! As pp have said, it is akin to the Westboro Baptist Church having a forum...God forbid!

This is the cyclical nature of this thread...we are back to Ummah.com being seen to represent the truth about Islam.

Sprinkles, I enjoyed the story of the woman who committed adultery and how she was treated by Mohammed.

Herotherhalf

This makes perfect sense:

Many british muslims are here because they, their parents or grandparents wanted to escape oppressive regimes, not because they wanted to create a new one.

Beethirtythree you are so correct, you should not have to apologise for ISIS just like I do not need to apologise as a Christian for the Westboro Baptist Church!

And thank you, I have learned so so much from all the posts and I am gaining understanding each day, I have been taking the time to visit the pages advised to understand more especially about British Muslims, that is so important that I do understand and am not clouded by peoples 'All Muslim's are terrorists posts' you see frequently.

Peggy, I just want to thank you sincerely for being so open-minded and wanting to understand rather than judge and criticise. That really has had an impact on me personally and I'm sure on the other Muslim posters, too.

People think we hate non-Muslims but the reality is the majority of the 1.7 billion Muslims really don't. We're just trying to get on with our everyday lives like everyone else.

I especially feel great affinity towards Christians and Jews because we believe in the same God and the same prophets. I also respect those of other faiths and those who choose not to have a faith.

I hope we, Muslims and non-Muslims, can all continue to have positive discussions and try to build bridges and get to know each other better.

Thank you bringmesunshinetoo I have really enjoyed the discussion, and apart from a couple of posts it has been really eye opening in terms of being educated.

I have learnt some good lessons:

1. If you want to learn something - ask, do not rely on the internet as it may not always give you the correct definition.

1. Muslims are not terrorists, it is a small minority of individuals who seek to destroy the world using the name of Islam as a way to justify their killing of innocent people.

1. The Muslim ladies who have shared their stories and experiences and also talked about contentious issues - thank you, education is the way to help people learn - like me!

Thank you!

1. For my first post this was a tricky subject, but what I have come to understand is that we all have our belief's and thoughts on particular topics, but we all need to take the time to consider others points of view, and if we do that, and approach with an open mind, we can have difficult discussions which lead to positive change.

For

Thank you!