so embarrassed Year 2 son!

[Ohcrapbag]

I have two sons, one is now in secondary and the other year 2.
September born so one of the eldest but has always been quite immature compared to his peers, preferring to run around playing football or out on his bike than to playing complex games on computers and so on.
He's just under where he should be academically which has always been put down to poor concentration and not really having an interest in reading for instance.
He's very lively and since starting reception has had many tellings off for boisterous behaviour within his friendship group ( 4 of them all very similar ) however it's all come to a bit of a head now as the teacher has called me in for the following reasons -
Him saying " I don't want to / I already know this / I'm not interested in this / my parents won't care about this ( when she told him we wouldn't be happy with him not listening ) " and generally just being very cocky and rude to her.
Also being silly in class to get people to laugh however most are not laughing and just think he's stupid
Not concentrating in class whatsoever so doesn't know what work he's meant to be doing when it's time for independent learning
Reading level is 2 below the books he reads at home as he doesn't focus at school when she reads with him
She said there seems to be a lack of respect
I'm really embarrassed. We've been more positive parent types I suppose and we're always proud of our children for having an opinion and a voice, for not following the crowd or trying to fit it and being happy an individuals however she said it's not being assertive, just rude and wants us to agree on something he loses of an evening for poor behaviour in class.
At home he is kind and considerate, very active which we've always just accepted so spend lots of time trailing through woods and so on but no bad behaviour as such.
She asked if we had noticed anything at home but other than not wanting to read with us and telling his football coach he already knows how to play football a few times when doing his lessons I can't think of anything at all.
Is this just a phase? She seemed really annoyed; usually very smily and jokey but not today.

Of course I've told him off
He cried and said he didn't even realise he was being rude
He's very upset the teacher thinks he is a rude child now and wants to say sorry
Believe me we tell off when we need to, we just don't actually need to very much at home.
He's kept very busy so maybe this has contributed as he's not used to having to sit for long periods and so on.
I'm not blameless of course; but I am going to sort this out.

Apologies for the typos in that post. Typing into my phone too quickly- it has its own opinions on what words I should use. It is indeed 'spirited' and annoying

Not liking a teacher isn't a problem. It's teachers not liking the child's which is a problem. My child could certainly pick that up and react to it. It's been clear to me (my son is now in y6) that 2 of via ushers caused him quite a lot of harm. He's also been lucky with some others, where I really hoped and prayed he didn't get certain teachers, and he didn't. The good teachers he had do not lack discipline or boundaries. Their classes are well behaved. But they like my son, and get him, and praise his strengths. He responds. That's a litter of bad teachers blaming bad parenting.

Sorry hope typos don't get in the way of the message. Btw, I have teachers in my family and close friends. They agree with me.

MerryMarigold

I agree that a teacher not liking a child can be a problem, but unless that teacher is unfair or unpleasant to that child, it shouldn't be. I don't like every child I teach. How could I? Some of them behave very unpleasantly indeed. However, I treat them all fairly and I do not make distinctions based on whether or not I like them. I expect good behaviour whether or not they like me, just as I will treat them fairly whether or not I like them.

I agree with Trifle and Duchesse. Ds1 has this 'always having an answer', it wasn't me, it was only water. I find it the most infuriating thing. Also a total lack of respect for elders/teachers/adults. As if they are all idiots. And most of the 13/14 year olds I know are like this.

This is what the last generation of parenting is producing. Heed the warning!

I'm not blameless of course; but I am going to sort this out.
Good for you. You are on the right track. Far better than the type of parent who refuses to see any wrong in their child and blames the teacher.

Re-watch Little Britain. Pay attention to Vicky Pollard's "Yeah but, no but", then rain down on this behaviour like a ton of bricks. This is where the teacher backchat ends aged 15.

IME year 2 is one of the most annoying ages for boys! I'm a childminder and have boys of my own, this is the time when I really noticed a difference between boys and girls.

I read something the other day though about how kids sometimes get the balance wrong between rude and funny. Humour, sarcasm etc is a skill and like any other skill, they have to practice and learn how to do it properly. We don't expect them to learn how to walk without being a bit wobbly and falling over, similarly riding a bike. They need some guidance on how to do things the right way and then some leeway to practice getting it right.

Along the way there will be a few misses as well as some hits and they need the experience to work out who their audience is too. It's no wonder then that sometimes they don't realise they're not being funny they're being downright cheeky. They grow out of it given firm respectful responses.

Flowers

The reason as to why people are less likely to want to impose sanctions on primary school children and especially key stage 1 children is because these children are very little. It's more about instilling a love of learning than the actual learning as at this age, learning ability can vary by as much as 2 years between children. This age gap narrows as children reach the end of yr6. To impose sanctions on a kid, who's possibly a bit immature and 7 is incompatible with the goal of encouraging him. My dd is in yr 4 now and dh and I are aware this year is the year, where scholastic learning really starts to be far more important.

It sounds as though there are some gaps in this little boy's knowledge of how to treat people that need to be filled with love, care and encouragement. As parents, we don't have all the answers. And as a parent, who cares, op has come on here to find some of those answers.

I said upthread I think punishment at home should only be for a serious situation at school and I do maintain this belief. Op has already started the process of explaining and changing her ds's attitude st school and I wish her the very best of luck.

Sorry I should have added. I'm talking about little kids. Definitely in secondary, it is totally appropriate to back up the school when your child has misbehaved with sanctions such as removing a phone.

I think 7 is a good age to understand that there are adults who will need more formal treatment and in some cases even the much maligned obedience. Teachers, the boss, the police, airport security...

Trifle, I think it's interesting that those teachers who don't like certain kids have more problems with them than other teachers. They may try to be 'fair', but kids get it. It is also extremely difficult to be genuinely unbiased. I could always tell at parents' evening that my child wasn't liked, and he could tell to. Cue very bad rest-of-year. I'm not saying it's easy. It's one of the reasons I'm not a teacher as I would be partisan and find it too hard to be fair. Kids can tell, trust me.

OP I don't think anyone else has said this, but I might have missed it. Would it be possible for you to have another meeting with the teacher but take your son this time?

That way you can present a united front and he can't use the 'my parents won't care' line and you can agree a plan of action in front of him that he knows is serious

Calling a 7 year old immature for wanting ro ride his bike and play football outside is just disturbing if I'm being honest.

MerryMarigold

I'm not sure that isn't fairly obvious. I can't help it if a child can tell I don't like them. I hope they can't tell, but if they can, they are bound to be more of behaviour risk. It still doesn't justify bad behaviour.

"Calling a 7 year old immature for wanting ro ride his bike and play football outside is just disturbing if I'm being honest."

It's the interaction with other children and the concentration problems that are the issue not the playing out.
I agree a meeting with him and the teacher might be a good idea - stops him playing one off against the other.

I agree a meeting with him and the teacher might be a good idea - stops him playing one off against the other.

I disagree. In one of OP's posts she said I wouldn't say we've treated them as equals, just been allowed to have an opinion and not be " seen and not heard" and imo this is part of the problem. At school there is no time for this. It is the most annoying thing to have to deal with a child who can talk their parents round to doing what they want.

He does not need a meeting. He is not an adult. What he needs to do is behave well consistently.

He cried and said he didn't even realise he was being rude
He's very upset the teacher thinks he is a rude child now and wants to say sorry

This reinforces the point I made earlier in the thread. Your DS sounds very like a child who is not clued up to social norms and is struggling in school.

Lots of children on the autism spectrum speak to teachers in the same way they would speak to their friends because they genuinely don't understand that it is socially unacceptable. Some children aren't able to pick up these rules instinctively and need someone to explain them carefully. It's not an easy task.

Please, please don't punish him. Try to work out what else he might be struggling with, e.g. having to sit still might be making it hard for him to listen. He is clearly struggling socially as he doesn't know how to interact with his peers. He finds it hard to concentrate in class which could be for all sorts of reasons e.g. sensory processing, executive function (organising his thoughts and following complex instructions), central coherence (seeing the bigger picture rather than lots of minor details).

He might not be bothered about losing lunchtimes because he finds it socially overwhelming and hard work or possibly because he is emotionally immature and can only identify with the emotions he is feeling in the moment.

You cannot manage behaviour successfully unless you understand the reasons behind it. I think there could well be some reasons behind your DS's behaviour that nobody has cottoned onto yet. Teachers don't always spot subtler difficulties because they aren't trained to.

If he is struggling in school then comes home to more punishment and criticism, his self esteem is likely to plummet and he will struggle more.

I'm not saying your DS has ASD but he could have some of the difficulties experienced by children who are on the spectrum and, if he has, punishing him is the very worst thing you could do.

This behaviour would definitely bear further investigation.

Trifle, it may be obvious, but seems like some teachers don't get it. This child's behaviour is actually partly my fault a. Because i'm looking for bad behaviour from them and b. Because they are acting up due to realising I don't like them. It's all bad behaviour shouldn't be excused, without accepting any responsibility for causing it, or exacerbating it.

MerryMarigold

No, no, no, it isn't 'partly my fault' at all. I do everything possible to treat children fairly and professionally. I treat them the same, so if they somehow pick up that I don't personally like them that much, that is beyond my control. Their behaviour remains within their control. They just need to follow the rules. Don't engage with 'the teacher hates me' unless the bias is obvious. It just provides excuses and means the bad behaviour won't stop.

We'll have to disagree.I think 7yos are less responsible for their behaviour than fully grown adults supposedly in a profession that understands and encourages children. It's hard to empathize with unless you have a sensitive child's who's been through it but teachers are all too quick to put the responsibility into a child and accept none themselves. Whilst you may try to act professionally there still be part of you that sees the bad behaviour more in 'that' child, that expresses frustration and annoyance at behaviour which is v often out of the child's control, if they have certain needs/ bring bullied/ bad home life, whatever. It certainly was with my son. But as long as teachers are willing to pass the buck to the child or their parents because their own judgey pants are obscuring their responsibility, there will be damaged kids who have the joy punished out of them.

MerryMarigold

I don't see the bad behaviour more in the children I dislike. If I dislike a child (a very rare occurrence) it is because of their behaviour. It is because they are constibually disrespectful, or because they are horrible to other children, or because they steal or lie. It isn't an arbitrary thing. And you are correct that we will have to disagree that I am responsible for that behaviour. A 7 year old is old enough to know how to behave and do as he is told. Have you considered how far you are responsible for his behaviour? You are a far greater influence than the teacher will ever be.

I'm with Goldmandra, and I would let her words give you pause before you listen exclusively to all the enthusiastic neo-disciplinarians on this thread.

You need to be very clear with your ds (with a lot of practical examples) that he needs to show respect to teachers, but it sounds as if there is more going on here and that this isn't a 'brat', as a couple of nice relies have stated

And I do despair rather that we have managed to create a society in which a 7yo loving outdoor play might possibly be described as 'immature' (not a dig at you, OP, at all). There's an odd idea - you see it on here all the time - that interaction with more 'grown-up' things is a sign of advancement and a matter of pride. Parents talking about how their 4yos watched and understood Harry Potter

I quite like the sound of your boy, OP. My middle one (probably some AS traits at least) is like this in some ways. He needs guidance on appropriate behaviour and support to find out what is getting in the way of his learning. Kids of this age want to learn.

neo-disciplinarians

Ooh intriguing. What's a neo-disciplinarian?