so embarrassed Year 2 son!

[Ohcrapbag]

I have two sons, one is now in secondary and the other year 2.
September born so one of the eldest but has always been quite immature compared to his peers, preferring to run around playing football or out on his bike than to playing complex games on computers and so on.
He's just under where he should be academically which has always been put down to poor concentration and not really having an interest in reading for instance.
He's very lively and since starting reception has had many tellings off for boisterous behaviour within his friendship group ( 4 of them all very similar ) however it's all come to a bit of a head now as the teacher has called me in for the following reasons -
Him saying " I don't want to / I already know this / I'm not interested in this / my parents won't care about this ( when she told him we wouldn't be happy with him not listening ) " and generally just being very cocky and rude to her.
Also being silly in class to get people to laugh however most are not laughing and just think he's stupid
Not concentrating in class whatsoever so doesn't know what work he's meant to be doing when it's time for independent learning
Reading level is 2 below the books he reads at home as he doesn't focus at school when she reads with him
She said there seems to be a lack of respect
I'm really embarrassed. We've been more positive parent types I suppose and we're always proud of our children for having an opinion and a voice, for not following the crowd or trying to fit it and being happy an individuals however she said it's not being assertive, just rude and wants us to agree on something he loses of an evening for poor behaviour in class.
At home he is kind and considerate, very active which we've always just accepted so spend lots of time trailing through woods and so on but no bad behaviour as such.
She asked if we had noticed anything at home but other than not wanting to read with us and telling his football coach he already knows how to play football a few times when doing his lessons I can't think of anything at all.
Is this just a phase? She seemed really annoyed; usually very smily and jokey but not today.

Don't agree at all that he should be punished at home for what goes wrong at school...imo it's a crap school that suggests that

Most decent schools would suggest that. By far the best way to deal with poor behaviour is for the school.and parents to work together and present a united front. Children need consistency, they need to know what is expected of them. They also need to be taught at home that school and learning are important.

Working with in cooperation with parents is really important but there are much better ways to work as a team than to pile on extra sanctions when the sanctions imposed in school aren't working.
The OP needs to have conversations with the school so they can work together, sharing information and experience, to try to find the root cause of this behaviour and address it.

Telling him that his behaviour won't be tolerated and introducing sanctions at home for bad behaviour at school is the very first step. He needs to get the message that the parents are with his teacher on this. It's a no-brainer. Worry about more complex explanations much further down the line if needed. For now, he just needs really clear boundaries.

Normally I don't think consequences at home for behaviour in school is necessarily the answer.

However in this case I think it absolutely is. It's a response to saying "my parents won't care about this" and the thing you need to do is show you do care. Not in a "let's sit down and talk about how we can all be nice together" type of way, but in a "actually I am so upset then this will happen".

He isn't 'misbehaving'. He is pushing boundaries for a rise because he is bored. Yes he's misbehaving and if he's bored it sounds like he has a heck of a lot of work he can settle down to.

And those chess playing boys may like football too, and watching screens.
Ds lives football... he also enjoys various you-tubers and also plays chess. he may play chess with the slightly unconventional spinning round on his chair between moves (when he plays dh, he knows that isn't acceptable outside the home) but he still enjoys it. My df pulled a muscle playing chess once. It's a very active game

You really need to back the teacher up on this so he can see that it is unacceptable.

I don't believe for a second that this behaviour is new. I'd reckon they've been trying to deal with it and are at the end of their tether. So many school hours are lost to dealing with this sort of thing. It is tedious and soul destroying for the poor sods who want to get on with it.

How will your child learn if he already thinks he knows everything? I'm 47 and learn new things all the time.

Your son sounds slightly like I was at that age... I much preferred being outdoors letting off steam and was very energetic. My parents were always being called in because of my behaviour. Everyone was at a loss about what to do with me. I discovered my talents lay in music and suddenly became the girl who was never in trouble! I'm now a successful singer and looking back (and after discussing with my parents) we realised that I just wasn't challenged enough at school (and not because I was a child genius), it was just because I didn't run with the pack, and it turned out ok. I guess the important thing is to monitor the behaviour so that it doesn't get out of control, but in terms of maturity, don't worry, he'll find his pace soon enough :)

"I'm just not keen on punishing at home when it could have been hours beforehand"

There seem to be a few posters who agree with you on this, OP, but I do think you have to take a broader view.

Indeed, with a bit of advance colaberation with his teacher, you can create an opportunity to really illustrate (to your son) that you will fully support the teacher in her quest for good behavior and respect towards all.

With agreement and cooperation between you and the school, the teacher could set an immediate 'punishment' for unacceptable behavior, but one which will impact on the things he prefers to do at home, and you could be seen to enforce it.
For example, in response to unacceptable behavior, the teacher sets a fairly substantial project/exercise/piece of reading/whatever, to be done that evening.
You then enforce it, by insisting that the work is done carefully and over a substantial length of time, instead of going out/doing whatever. You also explain why you're enforcing it.

That way the teacher's 'punishment' affects something he values (his free time) and he also sees that you agree with, respect and support the teacher's decision.

I would consider which elements of his behaviour you think are unacceptable / rude and tackle these but bear in mind that the teaching style of this current teacher may not suit your DS.

Not all kids are suited to desk and classroom and you need a teacher who gets this side of him.

My DD had a terrible year in year2 and whilst she continues to struggle academically and in a classroom situation her behaviour was only ever considered rude by 1 teacher. The next 2 teachers consider her to be polite but frustrating as she is also spirited!

Why should all the well behaved children in his class suffer for his disruptiveness? This whole thread is a particular bug bear of mine as I see how much an impact a child
Like yours has on the rest
If the class and it simply
Isn't fair!! Get tough on him;show him you are bothered by
What his teacher says or he will never act in an acceptable way!

OP, in your first post you said

He's very lively and since starting reception has had many tellings off for boisterous behaviour

so that's where people are getting it from when they say it's been an issue since reception - not sure why you were confused about that

The teacher obviously wants some backup from you, which is why she has asked for his behaviour in class to have a consequence at home. To show that you do care about his behaviour in class, because at the moment your DS seems to think that he can get away with it!

Has the teacher agreed a method for her to give feedback on his behaviour on a day-to-day basis - a written diary or similar (that you could hopefully use as well)?

It is a lot to take in if you were not expecting to hear it, so it's fine to take a day or so to take it in (and it looks like you've spoken to your DS already about some aspects of it) and perhaps meet up with the teacher again to decide on the way forward.

Most of his classmates prefer playing chess?
I don't believe it. This is clear bollocks unless he's somewhere in school for gifted kids.
Btw, you say spirited, I say brat.
Your posts are full of uncritical admiration for your unique little boy but what it looks like is that he's no different at home than how he behaves at school - you just tend to overlook his misbehaviour and put it on a pedestal as,something admirable and cute.

For example, in response to unacceptable behavior, the teacher sets a fairly substantial project/exercise/piece of reading/whatever, to be done that evening.

Who wants a child to view school work as a punishment? We need children to enjoy learning and feel positive and fulfilled by it. Setting it as a punishment will give a child who is clearly already struggling the message that learning is an unpleasant task to be avoided at all costs. It couldn't be more unhelpful.

Is there any chance he might be dyslexic. These children sometimes become the class clown to distract from the fact they know they are not managing to keep up. They also can be giddy and lack concentration. Only a thought as you mentioned reading problems.
Also it can be unnecessary to always explain everything to dc. My sis does that and her dc have been in trouble with being too opinionated with the teacher. All my family just nod and think we know why that is happening..too much explaining by their dm!

It must be difficult as a parent, when you know your other DC did not behave this way, when you are using positive parenting. Also knowing that your DS can do the reading etc at home...so why not at school.

Taking 'privileges' away may work, or gently trying to ascertain if anything else is going on at school...a new pupil/change of routine/friendship group fallout.

Maybe it's knowing he'll get the attention (even negative) by being silly in class/making others laugh.

Do have a longer chat with your DS teacher and ask if there are any changes etc Work with the school, it's horrible feeling embarrassed and as though you are to blame...you are not. You are doing the best thing by not just putting it down to a 'phase' and trying to find the best way to get DS behaving as he does and can at home in school.

He isn't 'misbehaving'. He is pushing boundaries for a rise because he is bored.
Isn't that called "misbehaving?"

I liked my dd to have an opinion and not follow the crowd. Would explain to her the reasons why she couldn't do something or had to do something else. Could you not explain to him why he should behave in school and not be rude to the teacher?

I think it is crap that his day at school carries on at home with punishments. (ex teacher) work with parents yes, but not like that. a home school book works.

if he is rude and he is not responding to discipline in the school, I would not be surprised if there is a reason for that behaviour, especially as your parenting worked with the first one.

positive parenting is the name of one of the parenting classes that is popular round here so do not see an issue with that.

nor with being allowed to have opinions, he just needs to learn to express them in the right way and at the right moment. has anyone helped him with that? and told him when he can say something and when not?

has anyone said what is rude? explicitly. exactly what behaviour is expected?

does the teacher ask everybody in the class to sit down and he ignores her? (if so he may not be aware that this applies to him, if say he is autistic. )

I don't want to / I already know this / I'm not interested in this all sound the sort of thing autistic children would say and have no idea is rude.

if the teacher is asking things like "would you like to come and read your book now please?" then of course he is going to see it as an option to say no. or else why would she ask the bloody question?

logical beyond belief? something else that could be aspie behaviour

what does the teacher do in class to help him concentrate?
suggest visual cues,
simple language... this applies for you at home to to explain what he should do in school (helps them find the relevant info, mine often get instructions such as ddname, bag, door, now)
work at a desk facing the wall with no distractions. (like fecking posters everywhere, great for NT children, crap for autistic children)
using his name at the start of a sentence to get his attention (most of the other children do not notice this, it is a tried and tested technique in the classroom and is recommended by autism specialists. )
using a timer sometimes works and sometimes makes it worse.
reward him for good behaviour. break the day into small chunks and he gets a stamp/tick for behaving from register to break etc. make it achievable for him and he should be able to improve his ability to behave. if they bugger it up during register then he has no incentive to behave for the rest of the day so why bother.
praising the good behaviour.

is he missing break or lunch plays because of his behaviour? if so has it made a difference to his behaviour? they could be shooting themselves in the foot there

what is the teacher doing to ensure that he stays on task? making sure all childre are concentrating is part of good classroom management. does he work next to a TA or anything?

have you asked to speak to the SENco about his behaviour?

children this age often claim things as true from their own perspective. children have often said they had no-one to play with to parents but on investigation they have played with several children in the class but have forgotten by the time they get home. probably two children play chess and he has extrapolated the data... everybody else has crisps at school=the boy who was sitting next to me had crisps

also had pupils who thought that school and home never communicated. they were shocked when they found out. It was not the parents attitude that was the problem. they were very supportive.

consider all the other suggestions people have made for dyslexia/adhd etc.

and definitely book to see the SENCo

Oooof. Some tough reads on here.

OP, I've found that primary school tends to be more nicey-nicey than secondary, where they're more "tell it like it is".

We don't know what your child's teacher is like, but you do. If she was someone who was trained eleventy billion years ago, and has STRICT ideas about discipline, I'd maybe not take her too seriously. But she's potentially done you a MASSIVE favour by being straight with you.
Would you really have rather had another 4 years of primary with teachers saying "... ahem... isn't he lively" before having secondary tell you what a shit he is and how he's at risk of exclusion!

I DEFINITELY don't think you should punish twice, but you can certainly let him know that you've heard all about his bad day and that you're disappointed and sad. Alternatively let him know that you're thrilled he's had a GREAT day and that you should celebrate.

This is school and home working together. Talk to his teacher (even if it's just doing thumbs up/down to each other across the playground at the end of the day).

Even if he thinks he knows stuff, the reminders might teach him something.

It's unacceptable to disrupt.

Manners are important.

I don't think you're far away. Good luck.

Ohcrapbag I think what you have described does not sound too bad at all. It sounds like the teacher is over reacting!

Here's what I think, feel free to ignore me.

"... has always been quite immature compared to his peers, preferring to run around playing football or out on his bike than to playing complex games on computers and so on." This is not immaturity, in fact I would say in many ways he is more mature, knowing what he likes and doing it, and not sat glued to a screen like a sheep like (my kids) and so many others. Be grateful.

"He's just under where he should be academically which has always been put down to poor concentration and not really having an interest in reading for instance." I think this statement is very telling.

Who is telling you he is under where he should be? Does this actually mean he is just under average? Or just under what they think he can achieve?

"Him saying " I don't want to / I already know this / I'm not interested in this / my parents won't care about this ( when she told him we wouldn't be happy with him not listening ) " and generally just being very cocky and rude to her."

Well, maybe he knows some of it, or thinks he knows all of it, you can remind him he still needs to participate even if he does know things, and the teacher can remind him too. Not being interested in something you are being forced to do is not rude, it's just a fact. The answer is, even if you are not interested it is part of what the whole class needs to do and there will be other things other children are not interested in.

"Also being silly in class to get people to laugh however most are not laughing and just think he's stupid"

How do you or how does the teacher really know who does or doesn't think he is stupid. That to me (if it came from the teacher) is a rather mean spirited comment. Maybe he wants to be class clown to get some validation in a class where he feels like an outsider. Maybe you and the teacher can help him find a better way rather than selling him the story that no one thinks he is funny anyway. (not saying you are doing that but I bet the teacher is!)

Of course it must be massively disruptive to have someone messing around and making jokes, but if the rest of the class were not laughing along then I expect he would stop anyway. I think the teacher may be making it all a bit too strict, is it all about SATS and no fun at the moment, could that be an issue (my son is year 2 as well).

Of course the teacher needs to keep order, but it sounds to me like he is being rather crushed and made to feel like the odd one out, which is really not the way to get him on side, simply the way to alienate him further, IMHO.

"Not concentrating in class whatsoever so doesn't know what work he's meant to be doing when it's time for independent learning"

So can you work out with the teacher why things have 'deteriorated' at this point, could there be a reason? Health, bullying, something at home? Yes, he could suddenly have just go very 'naughty' but there may be more of a reason to it.

"Reading level is 2 below the books he reads at home as he doesn't focus at school when she reads with him" Why doesn't he focus with her? I sense that there is some sort of power struggle going on here, of course she is in charge, she is the teacher but I sense he cannot be bothered to read for her. Could you instigate some reading rewards at home and encourage him to take the book into school and then read it to her?

"She said there seems to be a lack of respect" There seems to be a lack of respect both way, to me.

"I'm really embarrassed. We've been more positive parent types I suppose and we're always proud of our children for having an opinion and a voice, for not following the crowd or trying to fit it and being happy an individuals"

You are right to be proud of these things.

"however she said it's not being assertive, just rude and wants us to agree on something he loses of an evening for poor behaviour in class."

That is a very bad idea and I would not go along with it. If he is a child who likes being out in the fresh air and doing stuff and is made to sit in a class and do stuff that is boring then home will be a refuge from that. Do not allow home to be affected by the activities at school. If we were talking major issues like bullying other kids I might see some sense in taking this issue home too but what you have described is relatively mild.

Plus the stick really is a crap incentive! You could go with a carrot incentive or better still a real sense of pride in his work at school, a way his teacher can incentivise him. I think the teacher needs to be more inventive, you can be very supportive, but for what you had said she is trying to push this onto home and has only succeeded in making you feel embarrassed and 'guilty'.

Where is he positive plan for tackling this?

"At home he is kind and considerate, very active which we've always just accepted so spend lots of time trailing through woods and so on but no bad behaviour as such." why not talk to him about all this, find positive incentives and examples. Doing well at school really does increase your chances of having more control over future careers and lifestyles so there does need to be some 'pain' for the long term 'gain' of doing well.

"She asked if we had noticed anything at home but other than not wanting to read with us" you said earlier he was reading well at home, two books ahead of what he was reading at school. I would investigate this, find out why. There is an excellent book called How to Talk so kids will listen, and listen so kids will talk

I would really recommend this book. There are lots of examples of working out solutions together, and of talking in ways that get kids talking (e.g. by not talking too much and giving room for the child to speak).

"Is this just a phase?" Maybe, maybe not. I think how you react and how the teacher reacts may determine if it is a phase. You cannot ignore it but if you or she go in all guns blazing I am not sure you will get he best result.

"She seemed really annoyed; usually very smily and jokey but not today." Sounds like she may have some issues going on for her. To be annoyed with a small child because he is disrupting things may well be a totally normal response but I think this is his education so it is not all about her.

Clandestino "Btw, you say spirited, I say brat.
Your posts are full of uncritical admiration for your unique little boy but what it looks like is that he's no different at home than how he behaves at school - you just tend to overlook his misbehaviour and put it on a pedestal as,something admirable and cute."

What a really mean little comment. How do you think that will help the OP? Really very bitter.

I think all parents should put their kids on pedestals, or at least find things to admire, it doesn't mean you agree to all they do. The OP has been very forthcoming but is rightly proud of her lad.

Kitty parents can support the school but they must first and foremost be there for their child. The school does not seem to have investigated anything about why their are problems and the teacher just sounds like a rather angry person. So I don;t think the OP needs to back the teacher until she knows more but she can back politeness and good behaviour.

Great advice Goldmandra.

there are

MuncheysMummy "all he's too young by far to know when it's appropriate or how to voice his opinion to adults in a respectful way so should do as he's told by authority figures!"

At what age can children voice an opinion to authority figures?

This isn't about whether or not the teacher can 'deal' - she shouldn't have to.

What is behind the behaviour? Often, it's lack of confidence. He will have noticed he is below average in achievement at the moment and will be covering this by 'not caring'.

Address it by boosting his self-esteem. Take him to clubs and activities where he can do well and be rightfully proud of himself. Have him make/do things at home and praise him. Gently, start at the beginning with reading and make sure all the foundations are in place.

He is still very young. You are very caring. You can help him with this.

I was going to say the same thing that another poster has commented. Has your DS been assessed for ADHD/ADD ? As you have mention some red flags. It could be that his finding learning difficult because of his attention/ motivation difficulties rather than not wanting to do the work. Some children with ADHD (not all !) tend to be the joker of the class, making other kids laugh, being silly, seeking that approval / attention.

My ds1 has some SEN and always behaved worse at school than at home, and our parenting style is not like yours. He sounds unhappy at school. My ds has some mild asd symptoms, adhd symptoms (and diagnosis) as well as a v low processing speed. He's quite immature but v emotionally mature. He didn't get on with his y3 teacher at all or his yR teacher, which led to lots of sleep and eating issues. He is not confident enough to have caused major issues in school, it's all internalised. I hope next year your son will have a teacher who likes and gets him. In the meantime take the advice from here which feels right, but don't make home as bad as school.

Oh my son also had reading issues. We think he may be mildly dyslexic. The slow processing makes reading hard. In y3 we improved reading a lot by takibf it i n turns to read every other page of books he enjoyed. He liked secret seven more than david walliams. Just find what he enjoys.