so embarrassed Year 2 son!

[Ohcrapbag]

I have two sons, one is now in secondary and the other year 2.
September born so one of the eldest but has always been quite immature compared to his peers, preferring to run around playing football or out on his bike than to playing complex games on computers and so on.
He's just under where he should be academically which has always been put down to poor concentration and not really having an interest in reading for instance.
He's very lively and since starting reception has had many tellings off for boisterous behaviour within his friendship group ( 4 of them all very similar ) however it's all come to a bit of a head now as the teacher has called me in for the following reasons -
Him saying " I don't want to / I already know this / I'm not interested in this / my parents won't care about this ( when she told him we wouldn't be happy with him not listening ) " and generally just being very cocky and rude to her.
Also being silly in class to get people to laugh however most are not laughing and just think he's stupid
Not concentrating in class whatsoever so doesn't know what work he's meant to be doing when it's time for independent learning
Reading level is 2 below the books he reads at home as he doesn't focus at school when she reads with him
She said there seems to be a lack of respect
I'm really embarrassed. We've been more positive parent types I suppose and we're always proud of our children for having an opinion and a voice, for not following the crowd or trying to fit it and being happy an individuals however she said it's not being assertive, just rude and wants us to agree on something he loses of an evening for poor behaviour in class.
At home he is kind and considerate, very active which we've always just accepted so spend lots of time trailing through woods and so on but no bad behaviour as such.
She asked if we had noticed anything at home but other than not wanting to read with us and telling his football coach he already knows how to play football a few times when doing his lessons I can't think of anything at all.
Is this just a phase? She seemed really annoyed; usually very smily and jokey but not today.

I know as the wonderful parent you are, and want to be you have already realized you have to do something.
Can you explain to him that he has 12 more years of this, and by upsetting a Teacher he is making himself a target, that he can be made to stay behind in his class and not move on with his friends, after all it's not a Teacher job to teach a child to be polite, it's the parents job.
It's a Teachers job to teach, however if he keeps saying he knows how to do something, ask the teacher to give him harder work he can't do to keep his interest, getting marked as wrong may remind him he doesn't know everything.

Sounds like he is the product of your parenting. So you should be embarrassed. Give him some rules and discipline like he needs.

I was also very about your comment that being into physical activities makes him immature because at 7 he doesn't want to play complex computer games. Why would you rather he is sat in front of a computer than out riding a bike or playing football? That's what 7 year olds should be doing.

I admire you for admitting you're embarrassed and open to finding a solution that includes looking at your parenting style and making some tweaks.

That's really impressive to me. I think you're brave, humble and thoughtful, and your son is lucky to have you for a mum.

I've seen a lot of posters on this site sticking their fingers in their ears shouting 'La, la, la' and wanting to blame everyone else for their problem without looking at their own part in it. Perhaps some of them are responding to you right now with pretty judgemental comments.

Our little girl is only one, so I've no good advice for you except work with the teachers and support them. I come from a family of teachers, and for the most part, they really do have your son's best interests at heart.

I'm pretty certain you'll find a good solution and that your boy will turn out just awesome. And very funny. My husband is a total clown and I love him so much for all the joy he brings to me, my daughter and everyone else who knows him.

Good luck x

He's admitted he doesn't know something but insists he does? I wouldn't say that's logical beyond belief?
It sounds like he has zero respect for any teachers or coaches- is it possible to work out where that has come from? I don't agree with big punishments at home. Would it be possible for him to attend a meeting with you and the teacher to show that you back up their points?
Sounds like you're addressing the issues OP and it sounds tricky. Definitely good to deal with it now.

The teacher wants you to take it seriously! He's picked up from you, somehow, that you aren't all that bothered about his behaviour and won't back his teacher up. Unfortunately a lot of what you've said in this thread shows that he's right. You aren't being fair to the teacher - whose job is to TEACH, and not only him but also the rest of the class, not to discipline your son or coax him into cooperating. You are doing your absolute best to be lovely parents but unfortunately that includes being firm when you need to be. It's not fair to let your children think they can do what they want without any repercussions - the real world isn't like that. Get on top of it now. I have a DS who is 7 and I know they are full of energy but the rude ones in his class are outliers and they are not the popular ones. Especially at this age, it's a lot easier to fit in with the class when you're not disruptive. Older kids are amused by it - it will only get harder for you to tackle it if you leave it.

Don't make literacy part of his punishment but ask if you can come in and support his reading in school, if the teacher will agree. If his confidence is low, he might be pissing about.

I would motivate him with things he likes - let him work towards earning points for something like a session at a trampoline park or something bigger like a skateboard. But you AND the teacher have to sign off on it, so he has to be pleasant everywhere he is, and consistent. Demonstrate to him and the teacher that his current behaviour is unacceptable and that you are on HER side, not his on this one. It's not independent thinking to be rude; no one else he encounters in his life will make that mistake so you need to stop him from making it.

He won't like any of this. You are going to have to get tough and hold the line. It will get easier and it's best for him in the long run.

Above poster, your comment brought a tear, or many to my eyes.
I'm incredibly biased but he is funny, caring and a wonderful natured little boy.
I'm hurt he would treat someone badly.
We talk to the children so much, beyond what many friends and family think is needed, short sharp yes and no answers are what I see and hear generally instead of long explanations about things however it has worked for us up until now and we've hit a hurdle which of course we will deal with, alongside the school.
I'm just not keen on punishing at home when it could have been hours beforehand however the teacher seemed to think it necessary as he isn't remotely bothered losing lunchtime so they don't really have another way of dealing with it.

I volunteer in a school where there's a boy like this (similar age). He learns next to nothing himself, disrupts the lesson and takes up the majority of the teacher's time. 29 kids are being held back by one pupil.

Apologies if I'm projecting my frustration but please listen to the teacher and come down hard on your son. It's the teacher's job to educate your DS, yours to make sure he behaves himself. Nip it in the bud now.

we're always proud of our children for having an opinion and a voice, for not following the crowd or trying to fit it and being happy an individuals however she said it's not being assertive, just rude

This stood out to me in your OP. The children of parents I know who come out with this are the ones I dread having over/ don't know how to deal with etc. It's cute when they are really young but then I think parents get blind to how rude it is when their children don't have any respect for teachers or those in authority because they're accustomed to their child and shrug it off with 'that's the way he is'. In fact two of my friends who have said very similar to you are now homeschooling and another one has a school refuser. There may be other issues there but I certainly think that their laid back attitude hasn't exactly helped their children settle in school.

It may just be a phase, but if I were you I'd look very carefully at his behaviour at home (not just when you're out and about doing whatever he wants but at home, doing chores or homework etc and start dealing with the attitude now).

Going out and playing and riding his bike, at 7, is immature??? His classmates prefer to play chess??

Something not adding up here.

OP I really do feel sorry for you and I'm sure he's a lovely little boy. It will turn out to be a phase but it's one you have to manage, if you see what I mean. But you'll do it! It's much better to be here being upset and trying to work out what to do than ignoring it or getting cross with the teacher.

The teacher is attempting to warn you his behaviour will get worse and his learning will suffer if you don't get this in hand. I'd be reluctant to have punishments for poor behaviour at school. I would try the positive approach first and only have consequences if really necessary or for something serious.

I imagine he's on some kind of warning system at school. I'd try to keep it positive so If he can stay on the green/happy face or whatever for 3 days out of 5, he gets a small treat, e.g. Football cards or whatever. Then after he's collected 3 sets, he gets to pick an activity or place to visit over the weekend or something. As his behaviour improves, it has to be 4 days out of 5. You could also do a sticker chart or marble jar at home, get a few cheapie bits and bobs - e.g. foam aeroplane, stretchy man, parachute man etc and do rewards at home as well. Pick 5/6 things that he gets points for and x number of points and he gets to pick something from the hoard.

I know a spirited child of a permissive parent a couple of years old, he's not turning out great tbh. Boastful, rude, wilful, showy offy, incredibly immature. I feel sorry for the kid and the mother seems oblivious.

You don't mention any friends - I'm guessing his brother is too much older to be that much of a playmate, and it sounds as if he feels he has nothing in common with the children in his class.
Or maybe reading between the lines he doesn't know how to make friends with them and his dismissal of them as being boring is just him being defensive.
Is the rudeness and acting up a means of trying to impress his classmates, that is backfiring.

I agree with others - his behaviour is unacceptable, but maybe he needs some strategies to help him socially, because it sounds as if he is getting it wrong and irritating others - and he might not know how to change now that he's got himself into the 'silly boy' slot - that can be a hard place to get out of.

Hi, although I can understand you don't want to punish him for something that happens at school, I personally think school and home are a partnership. My Ds1 does have ADHD (12) and has a lot of the same behaviour as your son - I am not saying your son does by the way - but I do take a firm approach with him. He has been rude to his LSO and he had to write a letter of apology and I spoke to him about it at home. I love my kids to have a voice but respect works both ways. My youngest I parent in quite a gentle way as he doesn't need management as such just gentle guidance. Sounds sappy I know!! My boys are very different so different approaches work for them.
To be honest I was quite shocked when they told me he was being rude to her as he is the most gentle, kind boy but it is a different story when she is getting him to work and he thinks he knows it all!!
At the end of the day, I reason that he needs to be in a workplace one day and communicate with all sorts of people. He needs the skills to do this and I am trying to teach him respect is key. Hope that makes sense.

Him saying " I don't want to / I already know this / I'm not interested in this / my parents won't care about this ( when she told him we wouldn't be happy with him not listening ) " and generally just being very cocky and rude to her.

This doesn't sound cocky or rude to me. It sounds like he has spoken honestly without understanding the social norms around expressing those opinions.

What you have described is a child who has problems that could all be associated with ASD and sensory processing difficulties. If that is what is happening, punishing him for the fact that he is struggling in school would be cruel and counter-productive.

The teacher needs to spend some more time looking for the reasons behind this behaviour instead of labelling it as rude and seeking to punish it out of him. I assume she has tried sanctions in school and they haven't helped so there is no reason to suppose that additional sanctions would achieve anything at all.

Has the school invited the behaviour support team in to assess him> That could be a good next step.

In the meantime, tell them that you will not be punishing him at home because it won't help and could make things worse.

Oh dear OP. I think you're getting a bit of a hard time. You don't sound as if you have been overly permissive to me. Is this the first you are hearing of it? Is it a recent thing? What have his previous teachers said?

Obviously you need to support the teacher but that doesn't necessarily mean being a tyrant or ranting and raving at him. Have a chat, I can make miles more headway with mine if they know they have made me sad or disappointed than if I confiscate the XBOX. (bike in your case :)) Find out what's bothering him, is the rudeness masking a fear that he actually can't do what's being asked of of him? How is he feeling about things?

It sounds as if you could quite safely describe him as strong willed. May I suggest a book called "You can't make me but I can be persuaded. Surviving the strong willed child" by Cynthia Ulrich Tobias. It changed the way I dealt with mine! (I should add that the book has strong Christian overtones but that didn't stop the suggestions being sound for me).

I work in a school, in a Year 2 class in fact, although I am not the teacher. I see a lot of behaviour like this, and it really does impact on the rest of the children and the individual child's learning too.

I also work with older children (up to 11) and sadly I can see that children that are allowed to "get away" disrespect and not listening from an early age do not generally get on well in school, and this can have a huge impact on them.

Trust me, if this is not nipped in the bud now you will both have a very difficult time through the rest of his schooling and he may not reach is full potential.

It pains me to say that this is often a result of poor parenting, but thankfully you seem to have taken it on board that it is your responsibility to deal with it. So many parents seem to wash their hands of taking responsibility for their child's actions. Please do contact the school, I am sure they will bend over backwards to help you if you show you are concerned and willing to work with them. This way you can agree on behavioural sanctions/rewards etc together so there is continuity and a clear message to him that you see the importance of what the school is doing.

If this has only happened recently then I am surprised, as Year 2 is usually a key year, with important tests (depending on location). I would be upset to think they have not contacted me sooner if this has been going on some time.

This is your chance now to instil some very valuable life lessons into your child, and this can be done with love and firmness. Good luck!

Oh, and I utterly hate the way teachers threaten children with their parents wrath. A very wise person told me that someone doing that has lost all leverage and knows it. Sadly now the child knows it and senses weakness...

You sound like a thoughtful respectful parent and your son has no behavioural issues at home.

Did you perhaps mean that he is very literal, rather than logical? It sounds like he doesn't realise that his literal statement was rude, and i'm sure you can talk all that through with him.

Struggling to concentrate and read doesn't mean he's badly behaved. The school should be trying to find out what he finds difficult and putting support strategies in place to help him. Often when children are struggling they muck around or play the class clown for attention to make themselves feel better, or become defensive to cover their insecurities.

My ASD child is very sweet natured and most would not recognise the ASD, they would just think he is very literal. He's easily led, he's shy yet physically boisterous and active (another ASD thing) and tends to end up playing with the boisterous 'naughty' kids because they're easier to follow. He's repeated rude things and done things that other kids have told him to, because although clever and sensitive he doesn't understand the subtulties of social behaviours. This has landed him in trouble (i pick up on any rude behaviours as he needs to be taught) and he is very upset when he realises it was something rude. I'm not suggesting your child has aspie/spectrum behaviours, but similar strategies may help. I'd thank the school for bringing it to your attention, explain there are no difficulties at home and request frequent updates. If you can have a book with a list of difficulties and behaviours then you can work with them to support him in school and discipline (teach) him at home regarding his mistakes.

She is asking for your support because your DS is saying that his parents won't care. You have to make it clear that you do care and that it isn't acceptable. I don't think it is about punishing him at home so much as teaching him appropriate behaviour. You could role play with him or play with him acting as teacher and you acting out. There are lots of different ways you can support him to develop better habits in class.

You've just got to get tough on this OP.

At 7 he shouldn't dream of back-chatting a teacher, and he should know doing it just isn't worth it because of how serious your disapproval of that is going to be when he gets home.

Somehow, you have missed a piece of the jigsaw in terms of teaching this particular child to accept discipline and respect authority figures.

You need you go back to the drawing board and think about how you are going to make sure he absorbs that learning. Your natural parenting style is to have long open discussions where everyone expresses an opinion and is listened to. You have to face that it may not work for him and you may have to be prepared to impose and really enforce some firm boundaries until he forms better habits.

Have an opinion? You should teach them to respect their elders and their teachers in life first.

I wouldn't have dared speak to any teacher or act out the way you describe.

Obviously, you equip your children not to deal with abusive/inappropriate treatment from adults, but in general, if a teacher tells them to shut up and listen (or words to that effect!) then they should shut the hell up - opinion or not.

You should also be backing this up by being equally fuming that they didn't.

We learn how to become civilised adults by behaving appropriately in appropriate settings (time and a place etc)

Has the school invited the behaviour support team in to assess him> That could be a good next step.

Yes, they're just twiddling their thumbs waiting for 'invitations' to observe children who are speaking out of turn and not doing what their teacher wants them to do.

Regarding punishing at home for things that happen at school: school should be punishing at the time, but you support by saying you are disappointed about what's happened so you won't do x or take him to y. You don't just say school's dealt with it and then shower him with treats.

OP how have spoken to DS about his reading ability?

Has he misinterpreted a comment along the lines of don't worry, we can't all be good at everything or but you're really good at football, Grandad was no good at books when he was at school and it never did him any harm ?

Our natural instinct as Parents is to reassure our DC and tell them that everything will be fine. Unfortunately, this can have unintended consequences. Have you asked him, how he thinks you could help him to be better at reading? He needs to understand that reading, and school are important.

Involving outside help isn't an extreme reaction if the school are saying that they dont know what to do and have nowhere to go. Especially if his progress is being effected. (Not that I've ever heard teaching advisory say anything that isn't basic common sense mind you...get down on the child's level...no Shit!)

I'm just not keen on punishing at home when it could have been hours beforehand however the teacher seemed to think it necessary as he isn't remotely bothered losing lunchtime so they don't really have another way of dealing with it.

You just gave your own answer, he knows you feel like this and so he has no respect for the Teacher, because he knows nothing will happen to him.

He really does need to know there is a penalty at home for things done at school, what does he hate doing at home, that is a chore he will have to face if he has misbehaved in school... you can ask the Teacher to tell you each day if he was naughty, and he will know that he has a price to pay... and it's your job as a parent to do this. for his sake.