so embarrassed Year 2 son!

[Ohcrapbag]

I have two sons, one is now in secondary and the other year 2.
September born so one of the eldest but has always been quite immature compared to his peers, preferring to run around playing football or out on his bike than to playing complex games on computers and so on.
He's just under where he should be academically which has always been put down to poor concentration and not really having an interest in reading for instance.
He's very lively and since starting reception has had many tellings off for boisterous behaviour within his friendship group ( 4 of them all very similar ) however it's all come to a bit of a head now as the teacher has called me in for the following reasons -
Him saying " I don't want to / I already know this / I'm not interested in this / my parents won't care about this ( when she told him we wouldn't be happy with him not listening ) " and generally just being very cocky and rude to her.
Also being silly in class to get people to laugh however most are not laughing and just think he's stupid
Not concentrating in class whatsoever so doesn't know what work he's meant to be doing when it's time for independent learning
Reading level is 2 below the books he reads at home as he doesn't focus at school when she reads with him
She said there seems to be a lack of respect
I'm really embarrassed. We've been more positive parent types I suppose and we're always proud of our children for having an opinion and a voice, for not following the crowd or trying to fit it and being happy an individuals however she said it's not being assertive, just rude and wants us to agree on something he loses of an evening for poor behaviour in class.
At home he is kind and considerate, very active which we've always just accepted so spend lots of time trailing through woods and so on but no bad behaviour as such.
She asked if we had noticed anything at home but other than not wanting to read with us and telling his football coach he already knows how to play football a few times when doing his lessons I can't think of anything at all.
Is this just a phase? She seemed really annoyed; usually very smily and jokey but not today.

If a school goes as far as contacting a parent, then the behaviour has already got to a level where it's either disruptive, a concern, or both.

OP initially came across as very naieve and PFB, instead of realising how extremely hard it is to deal with a child like this in the classroom.

But at least later she said he would be apologising tomorrow. That's at least the first step. You really need to take this seriously OP.

He isn't a brat. It sounds like he is struggling in some way at school either academically or socially, and the cockiness is actually to cover up a lack of confidence and protect his self esteem. Work with the school, work on him at home on how he should be behaving at school, lots of praise when he gets it right.

I never understand the benefits of this parenting style, to be honest. Children will develop individuality and opinions because they are people, and nothing you can do or say to them with the exception of seriously abusive behaviour will stop this happening. You do not have to convince them that they know better than everyone else in order to make sure they have a personality.

this parenting style

What style is that?

elkegel

The style where adults go out of their way to praise their children for questioning authority and then complain when their children turn out to be uncontrollable brats. Sorry to say it but I think it sounds true here.

Find it hard to believe that other year 2 kids just want to stay inside and play chess. No Year 2 kid I know would prefer chess to playing out and I know some academically very able ones.
He's perhaps struggling socially and trying to hide it. Much as I love boisterous opinionated kids, I would be fed up of one disrupting my kid's class so much.

Trifle - I'd rather kids were taught to be assertive and speak up and speak out against authority when it is wrong. The key is to learn when that is appropriate and when it isn't, which of course they might get wrong at 7. I'd rather kids are a bit cheeky than live in a world where someone bigger and older or more senior is always right and can get away with all manner of horrors because no-one can speak out against them.

The OP sounds like a very engaged parent and I have no doubt she can sort this out with the school and her DS.

elkegel

The OP sounds like she is making excuses for not teaching her son that he doesn't have the judgement to question adult authority yet. How is he supposed to know an adult is 'wrong'? He's 7. You are doing the same thing. You would rather live in a world full of cheeky kids? I would rather live in a world full of nice kids.

BlackEyedSusan. I don't want you to think I'm criticising what you said because your post was excellent. Just to comment on your "positive parenting" sentence. Upthread this has been described as permissive parenting. I just wanted to point it out in case op takes everything you say on board and dismisses everything else because you are in a position of influence as an ex teacher. Trifleorbust is currently a secondary teacher with several year experience and she has stated I never understand the benefits of this parenting style, to be honest.

Ohcrap I hope you can take the best bits of this thread because you've had some great advice from several posters.

Mummyoflittledragon

It's a little presumptuous for you to jump in and tell everyone what I do for a living, isn't it? What are you getting at in your reference to my work?

Trifle. I'm sorry if you found what I said presumptuous. You have made no secret of what you do for a living. I stated an ex teacher said the parenting style was fine, a current teacher says differently. Nothing more. I am in support of what you say. Did you read something different?

Mummyoflittledragon

Sorry, I did find it a bit much, yes. It isn't a secret in any way that I teach secondary but I think in any given discussion it is for me to mention it, or not. I am not trying to position myself as some sort of expert!

Anyway, thanks for clarifying.

Trifle

I really wasn't trying to paint you as an expert, just illustrating my point. I'll bear in mind what you said another time.

Mummyoflittledragon

Thanks.

You do need to address the rudeness - it gets very ugly indeed as they get older and won't necessarily go way on its own.

I have taught in a secondary school for 12 years and have definitely noticed that there are more and more pupils who can't just accept it and 'own' it when they have done wrong - instead they argue and justify. This thread has hit a nerve with me because, as HoD I deal with a lot of behavioural issues and I have spent about 4 hours this week on that. This is in exam season when I have pupils coming back for revision every night. It's an appalling waste of time and impacts on others.

These kids can't just mumble "sorry miss," and go on their way like they used to. Now it's "I was just..." "It's only a drink..." "But I've done the work..." "It wasn't me..." "Everyone else was..." Forever. No moment of acceptance ever dawns. Issues are unresolved.

I have spoken to a couple of parents this week as well. One boy had written a 3 line sentence instead of 5 paragraphs and refused to accept he hadn't done the task as "I've done it in one." . He walked away from me in detention. His mother said "Oh yes, if he believes he's in the right he will just walk off. He's so honest with a real sense of justice." Great.

I wonder what is going to happen to these kids when they leave school and just can't be told anything, ever. I'm not a rubbish teacher, by the way, and this stuff wastes everyone's time and is certainly one of the reasons why so many people leave teaching after a few years. No wonder the teacher you spoke to wasn't cheery.

OP, I'm not saying your son is like this or that you would continue to make excuses for him throughout school, but these kids at my school did not suddenly become like this at 12 after years of being compliant and polite. Seven is not too young to start addressing this and it will be harder the longer you leave it.

My ds (10) is pretty logical and well-informed and sometimes says he knows everything/is a genius (to me - don't think he's ever said it to another adult). I have said, when he goes too far, "Do you honestly think you know more than someone 30 years older than you?" (He does, about cricket for example, but if it's about another topic and he's being annoying I pull him up) and he sees the logic of that. We also talk about one of his heroes, David Attenborough, and how he clearly doesn't think he knows it all and is trying to find out more. No one likes a know all.

Have I missed something here. A parent that is worried about their DS being out playing and NOT playing video games and calling it immature for a 7year old!?! Wow I wish my son did this. Imo your lucky!

I agree with some other posters that it's the rude back chat that's the problem and with some clear boundries you can solve that. Try not to be embarrassed though. He's just a 7yr old boy that still learning. At least the school have highlighted it and you can now deal with it.

These kids can't just mumble "sorry miss," and go on their way like they used to. Now it's "I was just..." "It's only a drink..." "But I've done the work..." "It wasn't me..." "Everyone else was..." Forever. No moment of acceptance ever dawns. Issues are unresolved

Same here. Parents on the phone accusing me of being 'draconian' because I give their children reasonable instructions, which allow them and everyone else to work, are allowing these children to believe it is acceptable to question every instruction. The children are genuinely confused and upset when I make it crystal clear that our conversation isn't a negotiation. They are at school to learn, and it is my job to make sure that happens.

You're paying the price for poor discipline OP.

I am too, my son slowly getting more and more backchatty and we acknowledge that we have not been strict enough.

But children also carry thr attitude of the parents, and if your mode is "ill speak as i find" or "fuck authority", you'll need to also modify your own behaviour.

6-7 year olds are notorious for pushing boundaries. Thats normal development stuff. Its our job to hold the line - clear rules, positive reinforcement for good behaviour, consequence for bad behaviour, in partnership with the school. Beyond that (and my DS is frequently beyond that, this is something I struggle with too), educational psychologist/SN may need to be addressed. Oh and check for convergence insufficiency if he is avoiding reading - its v common in boys and can make them bad tempered AF. Getting that sorted helped a bit in our house, but we are still wrestling a bit.

Some posters think it's not possible to have children who think independently and are polite. Mine are.

If this is his first issue, it could be just a personality clash. The teacher not able to get the best from him. However she should be managing his behaviour in school with help from the head if necessary. You should be rewarding good behaviour and talking to him (not punishing at home) when he misbehaves in school.

If this is his first issue, it could be just a personality clash

The OP has made it clear that these issues have been going on since reception.

But also, for every child who runs home telling their parents about what a mean teacher I am and how I am picking on them, there is a parent in the background talking about 'personality clash'. This phrase should be banned. Not liking a teacher isn't an excuse for poor behaviour. When I enter a popularity contest I'll let the parents know

Some posters think it's not possible to have children who think independently and are polite. Mine are.

You're spot on here, though. The most independently-minded students I know are lovely, polite and mature. The 'I have my own mind' students tend to be parroting a lot of nonsense about 'human rights' and 'give it to get it' (respect) without having given very much thought to anything, being too busy droning on about respect!

We've been more positive parent types I suppose

Did you tell the teacher that he was just expressing himself?

Honestly love, you need to stop being 'positive parents' and discipline your child. I take it you haven't actually told him off [shock horror] for misbehaving in class?

I thought spirited was a term used by teachers to describe really naughty kids in a "nicer" way?

You have to make a choice about what kind of parent you want to me. He seems to feel that you won't care if he misbehaves. You need to work out what's giving him that impression and how you're going to convince him that you do care.
As a secondary teacher I disagree with pp about not imposing sanctions at home for school behaviour. I promise you that the child whose mobile phone is taken away by a parent following a detention is far more likely to improve their behaviour than the one who feels that his/her parents are fine with their behaviour.
Education children needs parents and teachers to be on the same page. From what your ds has told his teacher, he doesn't think you are. You have to decide whether to support that theory or prove him wrong.